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Group claims school displays are unconstitutional
By Staff Reports Published 7:41pm Tuesday, March 29, 2011Maplesville High School has been asked to remove the phrase “God Bless America” from its website and a plaque in the school’s front office by a group claiming the endorsements of religion are unconstitutional.
The Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF) mailed a letter this past summer to former Superintendent of Education Keith Moore and Maplesville Principal Maggie Hicks demanding the references to God be removed.
The letter, sent from FFRF staff attorney Rebecca Markert, claims the website and plaque violate the First Amendment’s Establishment Clause. The letter, dated July 27, 2010, is written on behalf of a “concerned area resident, taxpayer and parent of a Chilton preschool student” and other members of the nonprofit organization.
The letter says the First Amendment “prohibits government sponsorship of religious messages” and asked that the references be “removed immediately.”
“The display of religious messages in the school setting violates the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment, which prohibits public schools from advancing, supporting or promoting religion. Courts have continually held that school districts may not display religious messages or iconography on the walls of the public schools…” the letter reads in part. READ THE FULL FFRF LETTER
The letter continues: “When a public school posts ‘God Bless America,’ it sends a message to its students that the school is endorsing and compelling belief in God. Courts have observed that young students are particularly prone to believing that a religious message is school endorsed.”
Dorman Walker of Balch & Bingham Attorneys and Counselors in Montgomery responded on behalf of the Chilton County Board of Education on Aug. 10, 2010, referencing several Supreme Court cases about the matter.
“Expressing the wish that God will bless America is substantively quite different from the examples cited in your letter, such as displaying the Ten Commandments or a picture of Jesus under circumstances indicating that not only religion, but a particular religion, is being advocated. Moreover, your letter somewhat overstates what the Establishment Clause requires … (As the Lynch v. Donnelly decision ruled), any notion that this phrase poses ‘a real danger of establishment of a state church is farfetched indeed.’”
After receiving the response letter from Walker, FFRF sent out an action alert asking their members across the state to write individual letters to the BOE and The Clanton Advertiser to help support their objection to the website and plaque.
“I received an email forwarded to me from someone else a few days ago, and at this point I’m waiting to talk to the board members,” said Superintendent Dave Hayden. “We want to do what’s right. It’s legally being discussed amongst administration.”
Board President Joe Mims said, “About all we can do right now is assess the situation and let the board make a decision and come up with a solution.”
Maplesville High School has recently changed the phrase on its website to read “In God We Trust,” which is actually the same phrase written on the plaque in the school’s front office, said Hicks.
“The plaque says, ‘In God We Trust’ and it also says, ‘A motto by Congress,’” she said. “It was given to us by Congress and is the same plaque most schools have in their front office, library or lunchroom.”
Freedom From Religion Foundation is based in Madison, Wisc. The group says its purpose is to protect the constitutional principle of separation between state and church. The organization’s website is ffrf.org.
I am all about keeping religion out of the schools, out of government, out of all public places. If we can post “god-like” material in the public buildings, then we can also (and should) post Wiccan, Buddhist, Shinto, Muslim and Jewish materials to be fair.
Since no one would actually want that, then the common denominator is NO RELIGION, in government.
What founded this country? A bunch of pretty smart guys who wrote a Constitution, amended it many, many times, but in NONE of those original writings, nor in any of the amendments did anyone ever say “America is a Christian Nation” Y’know what? I think they were a pretty smart bunch of people. If they wanted a “Christian” nation, they would have written it explicitly into it.
Have your religion if you want it. I will have my religious FREEDOM, if I want it. But keep it out of my government. Keep it out of my public schools. Keep it out of my front yard. Keep it in your homes and churches where it belongs.
OK Folks,
I don’t know where the FFRF comes from, don’t much care. They have the right to be free from religion if they want to. That being said, I have the right to have religion as a part of my freedom. There is no reason that a public building can’t have a display sign saying God Bless America. It’s much better than a sign saying “Burn The Flag,” or “God Can’t Come In Here Because Some Stoopid Group From Wisconsin Says So.” That’s right… they have a right to be stupid under our constitution. Maybe then, they should keep their stupid group in Wisconsin and mind their own business.
When I get called by the Lord, I want to know where I’m going. At least then I won’t have to put up with the FFRF.
They’ll likely be warming up the action in the Smoking Section, if you know what I mean. Leave the sign, and let us teach our children with dignity and respect for God.
If you in the FFRF don’t agree, then go to the DEVIL.
just my .02
mack
angel – agreed!
I remember when saying the Pledge and prayer and a Bible reading were all part of the public school morning opening…..
geez,come to think of it….back then kids did no bring guns to school, attack teachers, and there was not such thing a metal detectors to get in the front door.
Maybe GOD SHOULD be brought back to school!
“…said Superintendent Dave Hayden. “We want to do what’s right. It’s legally being discussed amongst administration.””
What is right???
Right is leave it exactly where it is…No one is forcing their belief system on anybody…NOR should the non believers force their belief system on us.
When are we going to stop bowing to those who would muzzle us? They are not muzzled…it is socially acceptable for them to speak…but not for us.
I answer to a higher authority than law of the land.
I will not be a part of denying God. period.
Do the “right” thing!
With all the problems Americans are facing today, whether there is a “God Bless America Plaque on display seems to be a petty concern.
Private employers are required to accomodate Religion in the work place as long as it does not impose a substantial burden on the business. Seemingly, the public sector should adhere to the same rules or a lease those in the minority should be willing to practice the same tolerance they expect from others.
Sorry, I meant to type “at least those in the minority…”
Here’s my personal thought:
I have complained about Muslim students in the school my tax dollars support who wear the robes/headscarves as if it were NOT for the “religion”, they would not be dressed in that fashion. Their way of dress is advocating their religion…..to date, no action has been taken as it’s “their religious freedom”.
Again, Christians are expected to turn the other cheek only because those who hold office or position are scared to “grow a set” to defend who call “God” _ GOD and not Allah
Over the years, it as occured to me that some people are going to whine, complain, moan, and groan and carry on … no matter what! Clearly Rebecca Whats-her-Face is trying to make a name for herself. She is looking for shock value and she wants people to talk because this way, her name gets mentioned. And if she is so anti-God, then why is it that she is still trying to make a lot of money … and on every piece of that money it plainly states “In God We Trust”. If she is so anti-God, they why is she still seeking money with His name on it? The woman is a hypocrit. Now, I’m off my soap box and thank ya’ll for letting me get this off my chest.
As a ‘minority’…..
Congress is elected by ‘majority’ vote.
Laws are written and ratified by ‘majority’ vote.
Stores even customize their retail by the majority of their patrons. As long as a person of ANY minority is not being singled out and injured emotionally or physically by the majority, the majority still rules in this country. If you do not like the majority you live around, in this country you still have the freedom to move to another community.
I pray that God does touch the hearts of every non believer. It is their personal choice to be a non believer and they are not persecuted for that fact. The fact remains, as previously stated many times, freedom from government established religions does not mean people who work in government positions have to ‘hide’ their beliefs, especially when those beliefs are the same as the majority of the community they live in.
Schools are not completely funded by the federal government. If it was not for local and state taxes, they would not be able to function at all. Therefore, the local and state influences are just as prominent as the federal, if not more. Many times, schools are a reflection of the community they are in.
Well said. Thank you.
If the ‘majority’ wanted slavery, it would still be wrong. It would be illegal and unconstitutional.
Just because the ‘majority’ wants religion in government, does not make it right, nor does it make it Constitutional.
That is why we have a Supreme Court. If you want a religious, Christian-run America, then you better elect the people to change the Constitution….good luck with that.
First, I want to know if this pre-school student can read the plaque. Second, if this parent feels “left out” as the letter states due to being in the minority as a non-believer, she may be missing something in her life such as God and maybe if she had Jesus she would not feel so “left out.” Third, if the believers are wrong and there is no God, we will lose nothing. If the non-believers are wrong, they stand to lose everything. And finally, Rebecca Markert is not licensed to practice law in the State of Alabama. I hope and PRAY that our Board stands strong.
Who is this “concerned area resident” that has cowardly hidden behind this out of state organization to make this complaint for them? Why did they not go before the BOE in person to express their concern? If they are truly passionate about their beliefs, they should own up to them in public. Did I overlook that information in the article or attached letter?
The very same question came to me as I read this.
Speak out coward!
I can not say it was this guy but grandpa always said “Two plus two equals four.”
See http://www.clantonadvertiser.com/2011/03/29/phrase-is-endorsement-of-religion/
Phil … I think you’re right. After all how many people are there going to be complaining about the school using this motto. It does seem odd though to do the complaint anonymously and then send in a letter to the editor.
Every year at Christmas I wonder when someone is going to complain about the nativity scene that the post office has inside.
The Constitution grants us “Freedom of Religion” NOT Freedom “from” Religion.
Too often, our population is nothing but thin skinned individuals that seem to take every thing as a personal affront, even to the point of trying to bullying others into accepting their points of view as accurate, and factual. For hundreds of years, our different religons lived together, worked together, even married accross religious lines, then it seems a division reared its ugly head and began to try to change a way of life that had worked for centuries in the guise of an individual’s rights. Now, much as in old England, a few, most holding positions in Government, are establising religion by with holding the rights of the masses to practice their religion, the same religious premises that this country was formed on centuries ago. Oh we are in the early stages, no doubt of that, but given a couple more decades and there will likely be an endorsed form of religion that has evolved at the insistance of a few.
I am not an overly religious person, I base my beliefs on what I see as a historical chain of events that has occured over primarily my life time,but what we were taught, and knowing from where we came, and why, I see us headed right back into the same swamp from which we escaped when we moved here.
Our recent changes have shown that our present leaders are taking us right back into the socialist government that we fled from, (through our forefathers) even if it does have a King and\or Queen, and others have dictators, that many have fled to escape their tyranny.
When our newcomers, those even newer than we, fail to claim their citizenship, and give their allegance to this country, keeping in their newfound title the name of the country they left, then they were not then, nor now in search of a new way of life, but only a new place to implement their old one, and indoing so, forcing those already established here into following theirs. The Europeans have already showing their ability to move into a new place, and take over, establishing their way of life on those already there, and now other nations are doing much the same here, and using much the same tactics that were used in our countries early history.
Rest assured, it appears that our country is going through a change, and it appears to the naked eye that it is not a positive one for those of us that try to live and believe in what this country was founded on.
Amen, Phil!
The first Amendment states “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
Let’s look at the portion relevant to the claims of the FFRF. “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;…”
Nowhere does it say that anyone or any group or agency can not freely exercise their beliefs. Quite the contrary it protects your right to “free exercise thereof”. If you as an individual, or for that matter any group or agency, wish to state, imply or convey a belief in God or in any way propagate that belief, either through spoken or written/printed mediums, YOU HAVE THAT CONSTITUTIONAL AND LAWFUL RIGHT.
FFRF – you are wrong and you know it. As with many other unAmerican, unChristian groups and individuals you have learned that if you scream loud and long enough many will give in. Well not me, NOT EVER!
God bless MHS, Chilton County, Alabama and the USA. FRFF – find a better use for your money and time. May God forgive you.
Private groups certainly have the rights you enumerated. Government agencies and people acting in an official capacity as a government representative do not have “free exercise” rights though. They are bound by the Establishment Clause from endorsing or giving the appearance of endorsing religion. Numerous SCOTUS cases have determined that the Establishment Clause does indeed prevent governments from entangling themselves in religion.
Whether this is truly is endorsement or “tradition devoid of religious significance” (as “In God We Trust” has sometimes been found) remains to be seen, but your assertion that any agency, government or otherwise, can freely exercise a religious belief is demonstrably false.
Posting a motto does NOT equate to establishing or promoting religious beliefs. Buy a dictionary and get over yourself.
If you’d actually read my post, you’d see that I stated as much at the end. SCOTUS has found several times that “In God We Trust” is not an endorsement of religion because through rote repetition, it has lost all religious significance and is just a matter of historical tradition now.
Your claim wasn’t that any group or agency can post a motto, you stated that any group or agency has the constitutional right to state, imply, or convey a belief in God or in any way propagate that belief. That is what I’m arguing is wrong, as government agencies do not have unlimited freedom to propagate such beliefs on others.