Posted by REK1138 (anonymous) on November 7, 2009 at 8:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Couldn't agree more. It seems obvious now that the chase format is doing little more than allowing a late season bloomer like Jimmy Johnson to take advantage of the system. It makes no sense to penalize the dominant driver with this format. In an instant Tony Stewart's hard earned points lead vanished. How is it fair to rob a driver who dominated the first three quarters of the season for not dominating the last quarter and give the cup to a guy who only seems to step his game up to championship level in the last ten races? You can't blame Johnson for doing what he's doing. Clearly he and Knauss are taking advantage of the system, saving their stuff, so they say, for when it really counts. How long until other drivers figure out their formula, play it safe, race for points from Daytona to Richmond and the chase it out for the cup? How long until we have eight months of dull, restrictive, cautious racing so a mere 12 drivers can race for a championship? You gotta wonder if this is what NASCAR really wants.

NASCAR refuses to listen to anything but own inert voices. They clearly don't listen to drivers, clearly don't listen to the fans. The nonsense that was this fall's Talladega race is proof of that. I suppose when they're bankrupt, going the way of the USFL and arena football they might listen.

Posted by gonefishen (anonymous) on November 7, 2009 at 11:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I agree. This system doesn't reward anyone for the first 26 races. Tony this year, Kyle last year, and what about Dega last weekend. That was the worst race I have ever watched at Dega. I personal believe that NASCAR is trying to force Dega out of the game. The track has been a painful thorn in their (The Frances) sides for years. I say put up lights at Dega, rethink the plate issue and above all "LET'em RACE"

Posted by REK1138 (anonymous) on November 8, 2009 at 9:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Exactly - and why is it no one ever, EVER mentions the fact that Daytona, the crown jewel of NASCAR, and Talladega are identical tracks? No one seems to care that NASCAR descends on Dega with a list of rules and restrictions as long as your arm and smaller, more restrictive plates but the same rule makers will let them race at Daytona. NASCAR is not about racing, it's about manipulation. Johnson and Knauss manipulate the system to win championships, the NASCAR officials manipulate the system to ensure the kind of the racing they want to see (to hell with anybody else) and in the end, nobody cares, they're watching football, baseball...anything but NASCAR.

Posted by gonefishen (anonymous) on November 8, 2009 at 10 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Your point is dead on. Even the COT is designed against the Dega's and Deadtona's. This car was purpose built to perform it's best on 1 1/2 mile tracks. What size tracks has everyone built lately? The biggest secret was let out of the bag earlier this year with Carls wreck at Dega, this car will not stay on the ground when it is turned backwards at speed. One announcer made mention of this when he said that "the roof flaps do not work above a certain speed". NASCAR has known this, but due to the IRON fist rule, nobody could talk about it. There hasn't been racing in NASCAR for several years and to be honest I do not support it as I use to . I loathe watching a race from California and Pocono.

Posted by kwsrgraves (anonymous) on November 8, 2009 at 11:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)

You guys are too funny. The two tracks are NOT identical. The banking is different. Coming off turn 2 at Dega there is a transition that roll, or throws, you toward the backstretch wall. Before the last paving, there was a tremendous dip in the most inside lane of turn 1. You would bottom out there if you ran low. It easily upset the attitude of the car. Thus by the time you hit the turn 2 transition, you might be able to gather it back in. Daytona does NOT have either. The tunnel turn in Daytona has a similar dip. Dega does NOT. At 195mph, these dips aren't felt as easily as they are at 165mph. However, the effects are equally troublesome. The start/finish line is at the end of Dega's tri-oval. Daytona's is in the middle. Daytona is a shorter track than Dega. And banking is different. I can tell you from driving Dega, at 195mph, you can hold the steering wheel with your knees in the first half if the tri-oval.

Now if you remember races in the mid 80s through the late 90s after Bill Elliot and Ford took the Thunderbird to the wind tunnel, the cars became aerodynamic. They got shaped like bullets. Airplanes without wings. In 2002 Rusty Wallace, NASCAR, and Goodyear tested without restrictor plates at Dega. It was an unofficial speed test, but an official tire test. At 239mp the tires came apart after 9 laps. If you also remember Mark Martin led the only caution free single file race. This is nothing new. Remember Bobby Allison going into the stands at Dega? This, too, is nothing new.

The IRL also tested at Dega. The drivers were blacking out from the G-forces. Pressurized suits were discussed. In the interest of safety, that was the end of it.

At certain points, you reach terminal points in the limit you can push. NASCAR has achieved that Terminal Point with speed at this track DESIGN!

Posted by cpaladin (anonymous) on November 8, 2009 at 11:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Some points to make:

1) Dega and Tona are not exactly identical tracks. Every driver, to a one, has stated that your car has to be handling correctly at Daytona in order to be able to stay on the throttle in the turns, Dega not at all. Dega is just a mash n go track, handling is irrelevent.

2) Complaining about Johnson being a late bloomer while talking Stewart, someone who prior to this year was a late bloomer during his entire cup career, is kind of amusing. Stewart always came on in the second half of the year, and started out the first half in a points hole, which is why he doesn't have more championships.

3) Johnson/Knaus ran out of fuel at BOTH Michigan races trying to win to gain bonus points, and in both cases the chances of making it on fuel were unlikely or impossible. THAT ISN'T PLAYING IT SAFE! The only reason they don't score as many points in the first 26 races is because, as so many fans wanted of teams in general, they take a LOT more gambles on strategies, setups, and parts during that span trying to get the 10 bonus points for a win INSTEAD of playing it safe, because consistent finishes don't matter once the chase starts.

You take away the chase and the #48 wouldn't have taken those two gambles at Michigan, and threw away about 200+ points in those two events alone! If the points from the first 26 races mattered towards a season champion the way they used to, and should if it weren't for this absurd chase system, then the #48 would points race a WHOLE lot more than they do in the first 26 races.

They're smart and they play the game, if the game was different, they would play it differently. In other words, was the #14 team actually better during the first 26 races, or were they short sighted and played their hand too early. If a runner foolishly blows through all their energy in the first 2/3 of a race and has nothing left at the end, and another paces themselves until the last 1/3 so they can come on strong at the end and win, is that unfair or just what you're supposed to do?

Besides, Stewart's team was in a building year, consistent finishes mattered a lot more than they would have at other points in his career, hence their startling consistency but fewer gambles taken.

And for the record, while I don't dislike Johnson and I respect what the #48 has accomplished, I couldn't care less when he wins either, as most of the drivers I liked are dead/retired. Johnson seems like a nice guy but he bores me to death.

If one ever wants to bring excitement to the chase, or the series again, you'd have to redesign the COT, lose the stupid wing, run a V6 on the plate tracks and nix the restrictor plate, ditch the chase but also give at least 20-25 more points for a win over second, get rid of so many cookie cutter tracks and bring back more difficult and diverse venues like Rockingham, and so on. The kinds of tracks that made races a barn burner and not a snoozer.

Posted by kwsrgraves (anonymous) on November 8, 2009 at 12:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The six-cylinder was tried in the old Grand National series. Don't think NASCAR will EVER make that mistake again. I'm not a Johnson fan, nor Hendricks fan. I was a Donny and Bobby Allson fan when they were running BIR and MIS. I was then a Rusty Wallace, Alan Kulwicki, and Harry Gantt fan. Now, I still have Blue #2 Leather Jacket. It has Ford and Rusty on it. That's where my team/driver allegiance stopped. But there are some up and comers in the ARCA series.

Posted by gonefishen (anonymous) on November 8, 2009 at 12:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

KWSR: WOW - YOU HAVE DROVE AT DEGA. I BOW AT YOUR FEET. Did NASCAR ask YOU to do special testing for them so they could get your personal input? I never said the tracks where the same in design or race profile. However, I did enjoy the engineering and technical report on both. Where you a member of the design team? I also did not down play either track and its status in the race schedule. What I did do was take a jab at NASCAR and the way that they present THEIR product- Modern day racing. IT S**S. I will agree the cars have reached max velocity and are using some of the same aerodynamics found in aircraft. This goes with my opinion that this car was purpose built for the mile and a half tracks since these are the size tracks being built today. My other comment was about how everyone HAS to praise NASCAR's new car vs talking about its flaws. The biggest being the wing. It does provide down force moving foward and provides lift going BACKWARDS while causing low pressure/vacuum across the roof flaps preventing them from deploying. This was proven at Dega during three seperate wrecks, Twice in the last race. This type of racing presents a negative image of Dega, and as I stated would help NASCAR justify pulling a race from DEGA in the name of safety. If you listen to the drivers, NASCAR is swaying them their way already.

Posted by gonefishen (anonymous) on November 8, 2009 at 12:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)

My allegiance is to my home tracks - Dega, Montgomery, and Birmingham. I also use the screen name "AlabamaGang" when I play online poker.

Posted by kwsrgraves (anonymous) on November 8, 2009 at 1:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

No need to get so irate. That wasn't a personal attack on you. The old roof flaps on the old chassis wouldn't deploy in a 180° slide either! As for roof flaps, they were designed to prevent airborne barrel rolls. Ryan Newman's flap opened as soon as he turned 180°, didn't help, but they DID open. I wasn't testing, just driving Kenny Schrader's #36 Pontiac, (before roof flaps were mandatory). You can too, for $2500.00 per weekend. I appreciate you bowing down to me though. As you know, I don't sit on my a** everyday and every weekend. Going glider flying next Sunday. You can kiss my flaps when I fly home week after next. LOL!
Seriously, Richard Petty said it best. NASCAR has saturated it's market. It is the second largest spectator sport in the WORLD, next to soccer. NASCAR has a LONG-TERM plan for re-inventing itself. Watch for Hond and Volkswagon being tested at Dega. Ford is now bringing the Mustang to NASCAR after LONG TIME LOBBYING by Mustang owners and club members like me. 2010 will debut the Mustang in NASCAR.

As for restrictor plates, did you know RICHARD PETTY has the most wins? YES! NASCAR ran restrictor plates from 71 until 75 at SHORT TRACKS like Martinsville, North Wilkesboro, Bristol, and Richmond. They have been tweaking the plate issue, almost, 40 years. Gone are the days of welding railroad rails in the right side fenderwells to keep running at Rockingham, Daytona, Talledega, and Bristol. Gone are the days of changing tires with a 4 way lug wrench. Want to make racing challenging again? Make the DRIVERS get out, change all four tires, fuel up, clean the windshield, run a full lap on foot, then, get back in the car, buckle in and RACE! THAT's COMPETITION!!!

Posted by kwsrgraves (anonymous) on November 8, 2009 at 1:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Gonefisn, REK was the one who said the tracks were "identical". Today the same speeds will be reached, as Dega. This track is shaped "identical" as Atlanta. The difference between Daytona, Talledega, Atlanta, and Texas, BANKING. The turns are ALL shaped differently. The angle of the crashes will be different, changing the amount of kinetic energy, thus changing the g-forces

I am 100% for 36 different tracks. Or 20 different tracks with one weekend OFF between EVERY race. And with 80 laps to go at Dega, Johnson's points lead was only 22 points. So, if the 48 had been "caught up" in the big one, he would be trailing MM, IF, MM had not flipped also.

Funny thing about "IF", If frogs were racing, snakes would be wearing lipstick and cheering!

Posted by kwsrgraves (anonymous) on November 8, 2009 at 3:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Think Jimmy and Chad have today's events in their master plan? I'm sure they, with help from Mike Helton and Brian France, planned to have Dale Earnhardt's gay lover/live in boyfriend, who is now Sideways Sam Hornish's teamate talk Sam into crashing Johnson so MM could pass Jeff Gordon and Jimmy to win the points championship. This creates a situation of a close chase, that ya'll said wasn't happening. The only thing better is wrestling, NBA, NFL, and those daytime soaps that fat, lazy people sit on the couch watching, eating, ice cream, candy bars, taking Xanex, and sniffling through boxes of cleanex. Ya'll been buying cleanex boxes for your race viewing?

Posted by kwsrgraves (anonymous) on November 8, 2009 at 4:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Here's a thought on the COT roof flaps. Add two flaps to the rear deck just below the rear window. When pressure is increased under the fuel cell, as in 180° slide, the flaps would equalize that pressure differential. Or even make the rear window a tethered pop-out like the passenger side plexi-glass window.

Or, just add steel spikes across the rear bumper to stop bump drafting. Make them retractable with a solenoid that is activated at a certain speed or negative pressure differential when created by racing too close the rear bumper.

Or, just eliminate Talledega all together. Tell Alabama to kiss off and take the race to a gentler, safer, venue. Serve tea and crumpets at each pit stop, and deal with it.

Posted by gonefishen (anonymous) on November 8, 2009 at 5:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Dale Earnhardt jr. has a gay lover/live-in? Better hope his sister doesn't find out, she may become jealous. Yep, restricter plates, big blocks and the energy crisis. I like the thought of the VW's. I would like to see 43 bugs on the track now. The updated version of the IROC series.

Posted by REK1138 (anonymous) on November 9, 2009 at 9:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Okay, Dega and Daytona are not 100% identical, so what - both tracks were designed with the same thing in mind - speed, speed, speed. Both tracks were built to allow cars to lap without ever letting off the accelerator (or very little) and both were large enough so that speed when mixed with the 2+ miles of track resulted in some of most competitive non-short track racing ever known. And then something happened. At some point NASCAR made the decision that auto racing wasn't about speed at all or the ability to manipulate a stock cars at extremely high speeds. The bottom line is that both Talladega and Daytona were designed for extremely fast, high speed racing and both have been restricted to something all together different and yet when it comes to criticism why is it Talladega always gets bashed by drivers and commentators but they're always willing to give Daytona a pass? Talladega hasn't had an on track fatality in 30 years - the last on track fatality in NASCAR occurred at Daytona. Dega produces spectacular wrecks, so does Daytona and yet every year the subject of mothballing Talladega comes up but no one would even begin to consider the same fate for Daytona.

So, you conspiracy theorists out there - you think NASCAR paid someone to dump the 48 early? It certainly got me interested again.