Posted by kwsrgraves (anonymous) on June 7, 2009 at 1:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)

First, good job to the law enforcement agencies involved. Second, for all the crap I usually spew out on the comment section for fun, there seems to be a common thread. West End is it, as of late. Carrying over from the article about Mr. Nix soliciting a juvenile for immoral purposes, this leads back to West End. Where are the positive articles about how much money West End raises for philanthropies? Where are the articles about the progressive status of West End? Where are the articles about the awards for beautification of the city of Clanton by West End residents? For all the negative comments I post, this one seems to be THE most accurate. There are good people in that community. But as the commenter designated "pendandpaper1" states, she would take her West End community over those across the tracks that hide behind their "white sheets". Well, I haven't seen any white sheets or drive bys in my country community. Could it be that my CULTURE and heritage does not act in such childish behavior? This is another testament to the denegration of society by certain groups that no amount of lip service will EVER change!

Posted by laura (anonymous) on June 7, 2009 at 6:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)

i have read with intress all the comments over the last few weeks, but the last two days i have been ashamed to say i was from chilton county.

kws- i was on your side of things for many of your comments, was impressed by how well u articulate your opinion. but i must admitt that the last two articules about "west end" i would not be surprised to find u under one of the "white sheets". i have not seen u comment as negative when gene martin finally got jail time for all his crimes, or any other "white" crimial. i must admit that while i was growing up "west end" had a very bad reputation and for most part still does, but i know plenty that goes on in mostely white neighborhoods, it is just not front page news.

i too, say good job to all the law enforcments agencys that were involved in catching these men, but just because that found them in "west end" has nothing to do with it.

Posted by ATC1962 (anonymous) on June 7, 2009 at 7:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Thank you to the law enforcement agencies involved in removing these criminals from our streets. It seems in today's society more illegal activity comes from the lower economic areas across the US as a whole. Crime rate is more prevailant in areas where people are unemployed and live under closer to poverty conditions. With unemployment at an all time high since the depression we are going to witness more and more crime. Drug activity and crime rate cross all lines and do not have racial barriers. Statistics however show the activity is more predominant in areas of overcrowding and lower social standards. Lower social standards again coming from not necessarily a race but conditions of the environment in which one is raised. I personally feel we should all be concerned about taking back our streets. Whether you make 10K a year or a million dollars a year. The difference to me in the reporting of crime period, and correct me if this statement is wrong ... It takes more time and investigation to arrest the white collar criminals. Simply because they have better ways and means to cover up their crimes than those who blatantly drive by and shoot someone. Bottom line, until honest citizens decide to better the area in which they live and take back their streets crime will continue to happen. Correct me again if I am wrong, the area from West End Baptist Church down 2nd Ave toward Clanton to the right hand side is all considered West End until you reach the hill which drops to the railroad tracks. Assumption the entire community is bad would be an opinion. As Steve stated in previous comments the entire community is not bad. No matter what community you live in, if the crime rate is high, until everyone bans together to improve the morals and standards and make the area a better place to live, the reporting will remain negative. This simply does not apply to Chilton County, it crosses county and state lines. The Advertiser has reported the crime from where it took place to where the arrests were made. From previous articles in the paper, there are citizens in West End who are trying to take back there streets and report crime.

Posted by penandpaper1 (anonymous) on June 7, 2009 at 9 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Graves: I see you are still as ignorant as you were from the last time I read your comments. Read 1962- it is explained in that to a point that a 2 year old could understand. Back to my case at point, some juveniles got into a word or hand fight, and the parents stepped in, which leads back to my original comment about the younger generation in the West End. There are still plenty of people out there that cares, and work night and day to help this situation. Graves, the sheet thing really got under your skin huh? well dont worry, its not the 60's its the new generation and I call them as I see them, if they take the sheets off.

Posted by Care4GodsEarth (anonymous) on June 7, 2009 at 11:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)

penandpaper1- He just likes to argue. As you know "his culture" has done many things over the years that are shameful. Nothing and no one is perfect.

Some folks like to stir up arguments and they don't care what the article is about. They just can't stay on track and they want an audience.

What's important is helping to correct the problems before the community gives up on trying to correct them. To do it before the community starts making judgements on people just because they live on a certain street, or their kin got in legal trouble, or they are different than you are.

Whether it's Dixon Circle, West end or a meth lab hidden in a remote house in the country anywhere in Chilton County, we rely on Law Enforcement to remove the criminals and stop the crimes. This article is a report of that fine effort. I believe our officers are fair and are doing a fine job.

Keep on finding those bad guys! Keep Chilton county safe and beautiful.

Posted by ATC1962 (anonymous) on June 7, 2009 at 11:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)

penandpaper1, do you know those involved? Is the story about a group of young people who got into an altercation during the late night and the parents took up the issue.I am from the era of the 60's. If I had broken cerfew, come home and told my parents I had been in a fight, the headlines would have read... parent in jail for alleged child abuse. Mine would have beat the stuff right out of me. When I came around and able to speak, then it might be discussed. Back in the 60's no matter the race, if a man had approached a child in any perverted manner, by the time the law enforcement agency arrived the headlines would have read differently. I hope that if you live in West End, no matter your race, you are working with those to take back the community. Law enforcement agents, both past and present are bound by an oath, not to discuss or disclose information about events that have been or can be prosecuted in a court of law. To dislose can jeapordize a conviction or have it overturned. Such is the reason why readers only see a portion of what actually took place. To release details could endanger the lives of others. I do think we need to take our morals and standards back to the 60's. I am not saying put on white sheets. Go back to a time where children are expected to follow the rules, abide by laws and respect their elders. Everyone should lead by example. We can only expect our younger generations to follow by what we practice and preach daily. Morals and standards begin at home. Sure, some stray and follow paths in which they were not taught. Then I would say take the tough love approach and kick those to the curb. Make them take responsibility for their actions. The details from the article are sketchy. Is it possible, the adults were 21 and the juveniles were 16 to 18? I do know Mr. Graves. I remember well his time in law enforcement. Back in the 90's where bound by oath, he served and protected all races. A time where his investigations lead to both drug crimes, and crimes involving those like Gene Martin. Believe it or not, he has arrested in the past those involved in such crimes which would bring down any community. He is tough with his comments and we all at times disagree with the way he has verablized many issues. While I do not agree with all he states, just as certainly as he does not agree with all I say, one has to say,with his own family, he has taken the tough love approach.If any family or community is in danger, people need to stand up, take back and take control to clean it up. What we all are missing and is not being said, no matter where you live, if honest people are in danger, if the danger is so close you can hear it through the walls, if an innocent person is in danger,the time is now to report it and clean it up. If we do not work to clean up our communities, we are not endangered by terrorists rather our own. We need to stress there is a difference between hate crimes and hating crime.

Posted by kwsrgraves (anonymous) on June 7, 2009 at 11:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

It didn't get under my skin at all. It was extremely racist on your part. The only klansman I ever knew was a former Sheriff in north Alabama. The "West End" community or the "bottom" as it was called for years is a tight knit community. I have commented on other crimes, like the murder in my neighborhood, the pot plants apprehended in Jemison, the store robbery out on 22, Gene Martin's ongoing saga, the drug interdiction stops on I-65, etc... But, two common places keep recurring in regards to drugs and violence. Jemison and West End. Whether it be a conspiracy by the Advertiser agaisnt these two communities,(I don't think so), or just the plain old hard fact these two areas are just trouble because of their communal characteristics, (most likely), there is a consistancy. Calling it like I see it. That's why I live in the community of Maple Springs. Most of the time, if,(and it's rare) we have a neighborhood dispute, we talk to each other. Family disputes cannot be policed, just as crimes like murder cannot be policed like traffic. I rarely see a patrol vehicle in our neighborhood. Some days I see them two or three times and see a Clanton city patrol cars out of the City in our neighborhood. But burglaries are few. And neighborly respect is high.

Posted by gonefishen (anonymous) on June 7, 2009 at 12:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

penandpaper - As you have written, you are the one that appears to be playing the race card and trying to turn this into a racial issue. The one detail that has been left out of this article is the skin color of all of those involved. Everyone's first instinct is to assume that all involved where african american. Last time I checked all races live in West End. Yes there is and will always be some form of racial prejudice towards that area of Clanton, but the reason it continues is in part to the words and actions of people such as YOU.

Posted by concernedcitizen (anonymous) on June 7, 2009 at 1:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I believe that there is crime and drugs everywhere, in every community and every neighborhood in chilton county. I think until chilton county steps up ahead a few notches, it is not going to get any better. The police department is doing a great job in trying to keep the drug dealers and criminals off the streets. However, What I am concerned about are the number of meth labs that are being busted, only for the ones who are arrested to be released right away and go right back to doing what they went to jail for to begin with. It's never going to changed until the laws are strictor and they actually have to serve time for their crimes instead of being allowed to go to rehab for 3 months and then get out and pay fines and court costs. It doesn't teach someone a lesson if you allow them to return to the same place and do it all over again. We can turn them in, have them arrested and within a week they will be right back to doing it again!

Posted by kwsrgraves (anonymous) on June 7, 2009 at 2:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Concerned, that is a problem that has been adressed for 30 years now. It's been tabbed,"revolving door justice". It was a problem adressed in the 98 presidential campaign and that was the last time it received national attention. As for these "meth labs", most of them are "coke bottle" deals that barely produce enough product for one person to experiment with. These so called labs are not the major drug producing operations one would think. However, they are illegal and need to be stopped. They are a definite menace to the "white sheet" side of the tracks. Crime statistics are available for Chilton County throughthe DOJ website. However, those numbers are compiled by "closed" cases. Therefore they are not an accurate accounting of crime in any community. Maybe Care4 and penandpaper need to take issue with the Advertiser reporting the crimes in their community if they don't want the rest of the world to know what is happening there. From the happenings on Liberty St. over to the gin and juice parties all night long on 14th st. Face it, there is a culture difference between us. That's not racism, it's reality. Ya'll don't go watersking and snowsking, we don't cook big pots of chitterlings on Saturday evening. You probably don't take trips to the homeland of Ireland and we don't go visit the tribes of Zimbabwe. Why? That is the difference in our culture and heritage. I am not knocking yours or calling you members of subversive groups. As I have never been a member of a subversive group. I probably will not be embalmed by Agee Brothers funeral home and you most likely will not be dressed and burried by the Martin family. If those words sting, then, so be it. I did not try to offend you or call you a name. I only stated what is a fact of life. Our cultural morals and standards are different.

Posted by wdfletch46 (anonymous) on June 7, 2009 at 3:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

My family moved to Chilton County (Jemison) 43 years ago from Birmingham. I had already finished school and never lived here. However, two of my sisters did live here and go to school here. What culture shock! We never heard about racial problems in Chilton County. Even though we did know of a dentist in Clanton who still made some of his patients "of color" come in a different door. Thank goodness those times no longer exist.

The worst thing we heard was "be careful if you go to Clanton of Friday or Saturday night because the river rats come to town then, ie. the Bakers and the Castleberrys. I would come to visit on the weekends and take my middle sister to Barrons on Friday nights and be scared to death that we might encounter some incident involving "those people". We never did.

I moved here a little over a year ago, from Montgomery,to care for my parents. My father has since had a stroke and is paralyzed. He is now in a nursing home in Prattville. My mother passed away five months ago. My parents loved their home here in Jemison. Therefore, I am staying here taking care of it in hopes that I can bring my father home again. I will say, I was never afraid to be here until about a week ago when I started reading some of the comments that have posted on this site. I certianly do not feel quite a safe.

A lot has changed in 43 years and quite a bit remains the same. Politically speaking, especially. It still seems that those who have the most money, property, etc. also have the most influence. People of this county must get more involved. If you don't like the way things are being run change it. The mayors, councilmen, commisioners, sheriff,and legislators are all elected officals, elected by the people. Instead of lambasting everyone on a forum such as this, attend the commissioners meetings and the council meetings, call the mayors offices, and write and call you legislator. Let your voices be heard somewhere other than posting comments online at the Advertiser. I doubt if any of your officals even read these comments. Show up at the meetings. There's strength in numbers.

ATC1962, well written.

Posted by KatherineReece (anonymous) on June 7, 2009 at 5:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I have never felt an unsafe moment since I moved to Chilton Co (with the exception of anytime my ex-husband was around) the crime rate here is extremely low really. I would much much rather live here than Shelby Co or ~shudders~ Jefferson Co. there's always room for improvement of course, but, sometimes I think some of the folk complaining don't realize how good they have it here.

Matter of fact the more I read about what is going on in Jefferson Co the happier I am that I bought land and moved here. My husband has been around the world, thanks to the Navy, and lived in many many different states and he feels the same way I do about Chilton Co.

Its not utopia of course .. but then where is?

Posted by November162000 (anonymous) on June 7, 2009 at 5:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

wdfletch46: How are you so sure that the commenters are not showing up at council and commission meetings? The comment section is for making comments. No one is required to read them, it's like a radio, if you don't like what's on either turn it off or change the station. Or not.

kw: That last post is absolutely dead on correct! However, pointing out reality will very often get you labled as biggoted or even racist by people who have never bothered to look up the definitions. Now, if you would only use that much common sense in your politics we'd really be getting somewhere! :) Good post.

Posted by penandpaper1 (anonymous) on June 7, 2009 at 5:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

ATC1962: Yes I know all parties involved, Gonefishen: Havent you figured out by now, the race card is not in my vocabulary I call it the way I see it, Graves : I have far too many things to do then to sit and change comments with the likes of you, if it's something I know about then you will probaly see my comment, if I do not know then I do as people with common sense usually do, I look, listen and learn. My father always told me it was better to eat too much then too talk too much. WLDFLETCH: I humbly agree with you, people must get involved, and and challange the powers that be, neighborhoods must reach out and try to stop the unlawful things that have been going on. No place is perfect, and there will be crimes as long as their are people on this earth, but hopefully no one will be hurt and children will be able to run and play safely again.

Posted by ATC1962 (anonymous) on June 7, 2009 at 7:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

After growing up in Birmingham and then moving to Chilton County in the 70's, I have never felt unsafe. In our community we do know each other and we do watch out for each other. While we may not share dinner or stand around the corner store and chat, we do watch out for our neighbors. Over the years, we have seen crime. This past year right before Christmas my home was broken into and items were taken which cannot be replaced. The violators eventually made the front page of the Advertiser. Were drugs a factor, yes. Basically the need to steal stemmed from the lack of money and the desire for more drugs. Were these young adults from West End? No. They are relatives of my very neighbors in which I trust and have trusted for many years. By the way, it was the theives own families who reported who was seen leaving my home. The calling card left behind was also proof who had been in my home. Sad but true. Many years back we had another neighbor, young person who was stealing four wheelers and such. This community noticed what was going on a reported it. Did that young man learn a lesson? Nope ... today he is also serving time in one of this states prisons. Even more recently and on another side, I came home from work on a day the weather had been bad. When coming down the dirt road, I noticed some teenagers seriously abusing four wheelers. They had violated traffic laws, and while I was trying to get them stopped, I thought one was going to get seriously hurt because he had four wheeler up on side due to hitting the edge of a high under the road drain in which he did not see.The drain is on my property. When I got them stopped and gave them an ear full, I did not bother to stop at the house to come inside. Instead, went in search of parents to tattle tale on them. So be it. Served a better purpose for them to know not only would I call the county but better yet, go and tell Mom and Dad. OOPS. Guess what, it solved the problem. While these are not shootings, it just takes concerned citizens helping others. Can things be accomplished? Maybe not over night, maybe not this year. But once again lead by example. Get involved. If you approach a neighbor when something is going wrong and try to be of assistance, it is usually met with a positive response. It helps to build a foundation where ignoring an issue only tends to escalate the problem. Possibly crime would not remain in an area where it is not condoned. No matter the level.

Posted by kwsrgraves (anonymous) on June 7, 2009 at 9:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Fletch, I agree. But, the local officials do read these comments. Sheriff Kevin Davis, whom I have worked with and consider a friend, often comments when he deems necessary. Other elected officials do read these comments. I don't hide behind a screen name. I go see my elected officials. I posted a comment about a situation that I knew existed. A local Circuit Judge saw fit to respond by writing a letter to the Advertiser to explain that that situation had been resolved for the most part, after reading my post. I have spoken with city council members from Clanton and Maplesville about issues that we comment on. I have spoken with the Mayor of Clanton, and let him know I support his efforts. In return I know he is aware of everything we post. Same with the Tax Collector, District Judge, and Circuit Clerk. I also have discussed some issues with a couple County Commissioners. Attending meetings is not possible when your work schedule spans most of the country. Our elected officials ARE aware of what we post about them.

Now, as I have stated before, crime is not indigenous to race, socioeconomic status, or religion. Most crimes of violence cannot be policed. Our law enforcement community does a great job of keeping tabs on gang banger wannabees. They do keep that in check for the most part. Violent crime, most of the time crimes of passion, cannot be policed. Those incidents have to be treated in a reactive status.

I make it a point to walk, or ride my ATV, (sometimes, yes breaking the law) to visit with my neighbors. We have a mutual respect for each other and watch out for each other. I often times will stop and help pull a tractor out of the mud, cut up a downed tree, or even fix electrical problems in their home. No need to charge for it. It's the neighborly thing to do. I leave my garage door open and the key in my Scag for the neighbors to use to cut thier grass. If, I have time I often cut the grass for my neighbors. My tools and equipment are available until abused. That is what good neighbors are for. There is only one neighbor i don't see eye to eye with, but we talk. We never agree. And I am across the fence from his politics, literally. But if his barn were on fire, I would rush in to help again. I have not witnessed that type of comraderie in many communities. Penandpaper, I have not accused you of being a member of a subversive group. I have never been a member of a subversive group. Just a fraternity in college, PI KAPPA PHI, the United States Army, and Alabama Army National Guard, ANOA, (Alabama Narcotics Officers Association). None of which wear "white sheets". So if you have a personal problem with me contact me through the Advertiser's offsite communication setup. I will be glad to buy you a cup of coffee or a beer, your choice. I like ruffling feathers if it makes one think a little deeper about a subject, and not just follow the line to the kool-aid vat.

Posted by magnoliapem (anonymous) on June 8, 2009 at 7:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I had a big long speech about the good job of the law enforcement agencies and about the issues surrounding West End. But I changed my mind about posting them.

Law enforcement were doing a good job. That's what they get paid to do. My job expects the best from me. So I expect the best from them. We could go back to the old regime. Where the sheriff's department only worked during election year. That's when they did thier little "drug" bust, or even patroled on a regular basis. We could do that...... Or we could be thankful that we finally have a sheriff that isn't in it for what he can get and is interested in the safety of the community. He came in strong, he's still going strong, and hopefully he will continue to go strong. Way to go Sheriff Davis.

As for West End.... it is what it is.

The only people who can change it are the people that live there. I'm not going to waste my time or energy debating over an issue that I'm not going to win.

Posted by dstrength (anonymous) on June 8, 2009 at 8:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I think the law enforcement agencies do a great job,but people need to realize things are going to happen no matter what community you live in or how much money you have.As for some of the comments I have seen on here,I know KW and have for years and I would say there is not a racist bone in his body,he has always been a call it as you see it person.If you don't like his comments don't read them.

Posted by reecie1 (anonymous) on June 8, 2009 at 8:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I think the PD and the Sheriff's Dept. is doing a fine job. I moved to Chilton County in 1987 and have never felt unsafe but I grew up in Jefferson County and I never felt unsafe there either. There were certain communities that you knew to stay out of after dark. Jefferson County has it's West End too. No matter where you live, there is more violence nowadays than there used to be. I truly believe there will always be racists (unfortunately) and discrimination, people will be judged on what they look like, the color of their skin and even how wealthy they are. It bothers me that it is just naturally assumed that if you're from the South you're a racist or you're married to you're cousin. I lived up North for a little while and believe me they have their share too. What I've never understood is that if a white person makes a negative comment about a black person it's automatically racially motivated but if a black person makes a negative comment about a white person it's never categorized that way. Prejudice and discrimination comes in all forms, it's not always about the color of someone's skin. Fat, skinny, black, white, rich, poor, educated or uneducated. I'm ashamed to say that I've been guilty of it and I'm sure so has everyone else. My Mother (God Rest Her Soul) had a saying "You need to clean around you're own back door before you start worrying and talking about someone else's".