Posted by PrAaHe (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 12:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)

2 slight injuries in 12 years? oh yeah...we've GOT to cancel this event before the madness gets out of hand..

I've seen people be injured in a simple church service. More often than not, they get into the spirit, fall back, and bust their head on a pew or something, often followed by a trip to the hospital..so i guess we should just cancel all church services since the injuries are driving people away?

Posted by 1oldman (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 6:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I have had concerns myself about this event, but never having been, and only aware of it for a couple of years, I have reserved my opinion until I heard more. I wonder, crowd surfing? what does that have to do with worship. It sounds more like what one might have experienced at Woodstock in the 60's. One might be justified in suspecting that some had been out behind the outhouse trying a little arificial spirit to enjoy the show, and don't say it wouldn't happen, for there are already folks using and calling it worship. Chilton County is not immune, and if we have had any experience dealing with people at all levels, we know it happens. K.W. and I both have dealt with the lowest to the highest classes in humanity, and we expect anything from people in any situation.

At best, teen's and music can cause some overzealous activity, and boys tend to show off for girls, and while there are adults there that take groups of teens as well as pre teens, I dare say they can only control those they are with, and not those around them.

This may or not be the cases here, but the jury is still out. I would suggest however, the trend has started, and if there is no action next year, the injuries may be worse.

Posted by SECorBust (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 8:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)

In my opinion having been to the concert and worked the event, it is a more of a felloship with other christians at a christian music concert than a worship service. It seems to be a positive event that is generating alot of interest among young people; a very useful outreach tool. It is never God's will when children are hurt. Enfuego was started in 95 or 96 by a former youth minister of Verbena Baptist. He had a great vision for this ministry and it has grown and morphed into something that creates a positive energy for the christian faith.

These guys are just teenagers and kids, there is not as much parental supervision at this event as with normal youth group activities and when one kid does something stupid the others think that it is cool and take part. I saw one youth last year or before do a back flip off the roof of a van. My heart skipped a beat, I thought that I would be scraping this guy up off the ground. You get a group of teens that large together and there is going to be some injuries despite the preventative measures. It's part of a mob mentality that is created at concerts christian or not.

There have been injuries before. The year that I worked at the event there were numerous (30-40)heat exhaustion related injuries. Ambulances were used to cool the kids down and transport if I remember correctly. Kids aren't aware of what their bodies need and there's no AC to run into when you get too hot. It was miserably hot. Rain was the best thing that could have happened.

Ther fire trucks are there because there is a huge fire that is symbolic of the event. Not only that, but all of the members from the FD were likely there so the apparatus was on hand just in case. It is standard operating procedure for a firetruck to be on the scene when a helicopter lands. Ambulances had to be used to transport the teens injured by crowd surfers to the Helicopter LZ at VHS or CRH. Helicopters are used as a precautionary measure when there could be possible brain injuries. Natasha Richardson could still be living if the same treatment that was given to these two girls was given to her.

The emergency personell in Chilton County are well trained and 95% of them are doing it for free. Think about that. Those guys standing out their waiting in case something happens to your little girl or boy to take decisive action that may save a life are doing this work as community service. They are sacrificing fishing trips, family time, ball games, and more valuable things than you can imagine to perform this service. Criticize all you want, but until you get up at 3AM to go help someone for free keep your opinion to yourself.

Posted by Rogue135 (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 8:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Really, 1oldman? Today's generation is not like yours. Just because kids aren't sitting quietly on a pew in church doesn't mean they're 'trying artificial spirit' to enjoy a CHRISTIAN concert! These kids were excited for the Lord and here you are saying that enfuego is just being 'called worship'? Please. Get over yourself. These kids were in a good Christian environment. Sure some got hurt... I bet you did some things when you were young that got you hurt as well. We all did. Kids will be kids. And just because someone wants to crowd surf or jump up and down praising the Lord at a CHRISTIAN concert doesn't mean they’re not sincere. And just because you don't like the music, doesn't mean it's wrong. Music is different now then it was even 10 years ago. Sure injuries may get worse next year... you can't control every single kid out of 20,000 plus kids! They have to use their own discretion at what's safe and what's not. Besides, accidents are going to happen.
People were saved at this event... I didn't hear anything about that in your comment? That's because people never see the good in anything. So if you can't see the good in Enfuego, I suggest you shut your mouth. Besides, have you ever attended Enfuego?

Posted by Machelle (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 8:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I have a 16 year old daughter and a 13 year old daughter. I will never let them go to this event. They both have told me for years that more bad goes on than good. No, they have never been, but they do hear stories. I think it's because there is not enough adult supervision. Parents think that since it is a Christian event, that they can just drop the kids off and they will be fine. I'm not saying the event should be cancelled, I think it should be supervised better.

Posted by my2cents (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 8:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Isn't body surfing considered dangerous? Why was this allowed to go on? Isn't this an event claiming to worship God? Well how does a dangerous activity reflect upon Him? Do you think it made Him proud? And do you really think He likes people marketing religion or worship by using upbeat hip hop entertainment? People should be drawn to God out of love and a desire to do what's right not because they like the music. Do we find such events in the Bible? Wasn't the Bible given for us as an outline for us to follow? Isn't God a God of order? Did this event reflect such order? Obviously not. Just because we may claim an event to be a form of worship doesn't mean it's an acceptable form of worship. If you will remember the Israelites declared the Golden Calf an Alter to God. How did He feel about that? I am not saying music is bad. People used songs of praise in Bible times, but it was never used to market worship. And NO I am not old or even middle aged, but I do have a desire to please God and worship Him in an acceptable manner.

Posted by travlr423 (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 9:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)

PrAaHe, I will have to say I have never seen no one slain under the spirit of (GOD)that was physically injured. I was raised in a holy rolling church and attended many of these type churches growing up and i have seen folks bounce off the walls and floors like rubber balls, but never saw any injuries that followed.
While i will not say that its not possible to be injured while falling under the spirit, I have just never seen it happen.
And if i were injured I would certainly think twice before going back to a meeting where God was going to take control of my spirit and land me in the ER.

However, Although this particular event happened to have had a couple of minor situations occur i think it is still good entertainment for the children and the community that wish to attend. And although there may be some children and young adults who's lives are converted as a result of this Event not all attend to be necessarily converted but just to have some fun and enjoy the atmosphere and there is nothing wrong with that. After all it is a live concert. And in my opinion anything that supports the gospel of Christ is to everyone's greater advantage.
And there is a big difference between these kids getting minor injuries in the midst of excitement, they are the ones in control.
when a person is slain in the spirit God is in total control.

Posted by travlr423 (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 9:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)

my2cents, Your comment can very easily be read as a contradiction to its self and the bible and the church.

"Isn't body surfing considered dangerous"?
Well do you consider drinking poison and taking up serpents dangerous? well there are churches that do it as part of their worship ritual and while i have heard of some bad results there are many who do it with success and its also mentioned in the bible.

"People should be drawn to God out of love and a desire to do what's right not because they like the music."

Well maybe that explains why there are so many different churches and denominations in existence today.

obviously it has nothing to do with God since each church declares to serve only one and the same God.
Therefore it must be because they like the particular church they attend over another or they wish to attend church because of friends or family members or maybe they like the preachers way of marketing salvation better.
Either way it still comes down to what one likes or dislikes.
So according to your statement we are all in trouble even you.
And God isn't proud of any of us because we all worship how and where we like which makes it more about us and what we like as individuals.

Some folks refer to that as hypocrisy in its worst form. The pot calling the kettle black.

Posted by PhilBurnette (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 10:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Rogue135...this is the second place I have seen you tell someone to shut their mouth. Do you have anger management issues every time someone expresses an opinion that does not align with yours? If so, please seek professional help.

By the way, it is not going to happen. We have the same right to express our opinions as do you. Several of us here served this contry to preserve that right, among others. I will exercise those rights whenever and in whatever method I wish. I am sure other veterans agree with my views in that area.

Posted by cntrygrl (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 10:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)

You know, I've yet to hear someone say football or basketball or golf for that matter should be canceled because participants (whether players or spectators) were injured or overly enthusiastic. There are risks associated with everything we do and fortunately God gave us a brain (which some of us use and others do not) to try and avoid dangerous situations. I would be willing to bet that the body surfers were not mothers and fathers but rather children. Imagine that...kids doing stupid things. I've been around a lot of kids in my life and I'll be honest it doesn't matter if they've got music or not someone is bound to get hurt eventually. When you open up your doors (or fields) and invite the world to learn about God some in attendance may not act as Christians…maybe that’s because they’re not and God wishes to use a particular person (or event) to reveal Himself to them. My prayers go out to those that were injured but I don't think you cancel an event of this magnitude because 2 people sustained minor injuries. I would expect that next year there will be a no body surfing rule...and isn't that how rules often come to be? We see a problem and we address it.
As Christians we often spend so much time worrying about other Christians when we should be worrying about a lost world. If Satan can keep us distracted and angry and let us hurt our brothers and sisters in Christ with our negative comments he wins big time. Just look how he has used someone's foolish decision to start body surfing to gain a foothold in this situation. I encourage you (whether you like loud music or not) to be busy about the work of Christ, to rejoice when a child comes to know the Lord, to give praise when a parent commits to being a better Christian example for his/her family, to cry when a fellow believer stumbles. Remember to teach God’s love and when necessary use words.

Posted by chiltoncountymatters (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 10:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Wow...for once I actually AGREE with kwsrgraves!!! I honestly don't think I would go anywhere with 20K people gathered in Chilton Co. for ANY purpose. I don't see that we are equipped for that kind of crowd control!

Posted by my2cents (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 10:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Actually I do not worship in the way I find comfortable or that works best for me. I worship in the way that God outlines in the Bible. Worship should please God and not us. It's His opinion that counts. Please do tell what scriptures True Worship involves drinking poison or handling snakes? I can't recall Jesus, our exemplar, ever handing snakes or drinking poison as part of his worship. As regards to handling snakes the only thing that comes to mind is one of the 10 plagues. It was not a part of the Israelites worship but a plague upon the people who did not worship God. There are many many religions that even claim to worship the God of the Bible, the one that Abraham worshipped, Noah worshipped, and Jesus worshipped. If you notice at Mathew 7:13, 14 the Bible speaks of a narrow road that leads to life not the broad and spacious road that many will choose. And the scripture found at Mathew 7:21-23 Jesus tells us how many will claim they performed works in his name or prophesy in his name but he says he never knew them or in other words their form of worship was unacceptable. So I came to the conclusion that not all forms of worship are acceptable although they may claim to worship the God of the Bible. Also in this scripture we find how that the one doing the will of Jesus Father was the one that will enter into that Kingdom. So there are certain criteria involved in worshipping God correctly.

Posted by PhilBurnette (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 10:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Thank you my2cents. Well said.

Posted by travlr423 (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 11 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Now if this were a rock and roll concert these children getting injured would not even be an issue worth a conversation. but as it pertains to religion it also gives rise to the opportunity for everyone to dictate what is considered Right or Wrong, Good or Evil.
What about the scripture that says to every Christian, "Let every Man work out his own salvation with fear and trembling" And as a Christian what ever measure you place on someone Else's faith it will be added to you. And personally myself i know very few self proclaimed Christians that can meet their own definition of what it takes to please God and be a good Christian. And i know even less that has met that measure with out fail but are still willing to cast stones in judgement of others.
I think the bible terms this type of faith as that of the pharisees and hypocrites.
And on that great day of judgment they will be saying, But Lord did we not heal the sick,raise the dead and work many great miracles and did we not do all these
great things in your name. And the Lord will say depart from me ye workers of sin and iniquities I never knew you.

I would think as a christian ones testimony should be more focused on a topic like "How sweet is that saving
grace" And not so much about me and my self righteous interpretation of what a good christian really is. Always remembering that it is only my duty to lead one to Christ but only he can save their soul. And he and he alone holds the power and authority to reward my deeds and condemn my sins. As man cannot save my soul or wash away my sins. It should not be presumed by me at any time that mortal man has the authority to condemn what he neither has the power or authority to save or destroy.

One thing you can be sure of if you fall into to the category of the pharisees and the hypocrites, as you are condemning someone Else's life someone else is also condemning yours. Therefore you may have fallen subject to your own condemnation and be to wrapped up in self exaltation to see it.

Posted by travlr423 (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 11:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)

my2cents, One of those criteria matters you speak of is where the word says not to judge others hearts or where you are not to take the word and use it as a private interpretation that you may use it to judge and condemn all that dont believe exactly as you choose to. or that that says let every man work out his own soul salvation. or that that says less you be without sin you cast the first stone. or that that says it is his job to separate the wheat from the tares. or that that says who is man to judge the law, who can judge the law, less he be the judge of the law. I can go on and on and on and on. but i dont think its really necessary at this point. The whole point is that each man has to find his or her own way no one can walk that walk for you. And if you give god his due as a christian you will not be perfect in the eyes of the world but you will always be increasing in the knowledge and wisdom of that that pertains to god and what pleases him and what will make you acceptable in his sight not mine or yours because it is not about satisfying the world or the Christians its about someones personal relationship with God.

Posted by my2cents (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 11:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Trav so you reference Philippians 2:12 to your comment? Doesn't the specific wording "fear and trembling" denote that one ought to take special care of their relationship with God putting forth special effort to exert themselves in order to have God's approval in their life? The Pharisees and hypocrites as the Bible calls them were denounced for their claiming to worship God with their mouth but their actions disproving this. To the best of my human ability I strive to serve God in a way that pleases him. That doesn't mean I am perfect, but I strive to adhere to his commandments as closely as possible. 1 John 5:3 tells us that the Love of God means following his commanments. His commandments are the same for all of his followers. They don't differ from worshipper to worshipper. In no way am I anyone's judge, but we all have the same Bible principles and guidelines. This specific referenced event's main focus in on worship to God so shouldn't it too hold up to Bible standards?

Posted by travlr423 (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 12:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

my2cents, (St. Mark,16 v. 18)words in red.
They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; They shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Maybe you should spend more time reading the word than condemning the world and you would be better equipped with the knowledge of the word and less equipped with the spirit of condemnation.
The word says " Study the word with diligence," The only way to know God is to know the word. "In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and God was the word".

Posted by my2cents (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 12:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Trav. thank you for giving the specific scriptural reference. I have read that before. Am I correct in assuming that this scripture was Jesus referring to his 12 Apostles? Didn't also Jesus give his apostles the ability to raise the dead as is found at Mathew 10:8? So this wasn't a actual form of worship but instead an ability Jesus gave his apostles to prove that that is who they actually were or in other words that they were divinely directed by God. Another scripture to back up this point is found at John 3:2. So the purpose was to clearly identify Jesus and his apostles as being from God. Does that mean he gives this ability to all of his worshippers? At these places of worship where the snakes are handled have they ever been able to literally resurrect someone back to physical life as the apostles did in Jesus time? The aposltes all had the same abilities so isn't it logical to assume if one can handle snakes without harm one could also raise the dead back to life? After I read 1st Corinthian 13:8, I reason that these gifts of prophesying, speaking in tongues, and having divinely revealed knowledge will be done away with. The reason is that it accomplished it's purpose. Today we have the Bible to follow as a guide. 2nd Tim 3:16, 17 explains to us that the Bible is our source for learning about God and setting matters straight.

Posted by travlr423 (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 1:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

my2cents, I am quite sure your a good person and im sure you try to live a good christian life as do many people. And none of us are perfect.
But my whole intent here is not to prove whether or not you are a real christian or a good christian. that is a matter between you and God and no one else. Just as these people who made the choice to attend or let their children attend this Event. we must each live our life before God in our own understanding of the word and with a diligent desire for his approval and always submitting our selves in patience and understanding of others and their personal convictions as a christian. But if we allow our self to be led by a spirit of condemnation of others who do not share our exact opinion and adhere to our personal interpretation of what makes a good christian we are all in trouble because you cannot please the world including Christians and please God at the same time. A man cannot serve two masters he will love one and hate the other. God grants us wisdom, knowledge and understanding as we are able to receive it . And that knowledge and understanding is given to us in an order which we should govern our own life and relationship with God and not to condemn or justify the lives and relationships of others with God.
After all being saved is the first step in one having a personal relationship with God and nothing to do with someone Else's relationship with him. But however it does bring all Christians into a common relationship not with personal opinions but with a common savior who gave his precious blood as a ransom for many in that whosoever would receive him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Posted by my2cents (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 2:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

trav. I am not judging anyone. I am slmply trying to follow the Bible. Any person or event that claims to follow the Bbile should adhere to the principles within. Do you not agree? The principles found within are all of the same importance. We can't pick and choose which principles we will follow ie: not to judge others ie: orderly arrangements.

Posted by travlr423 (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 4:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

my2cents, I agree that everyone must be saved to enter into the kingdom that god has prepared for them who love him. What i do not agree with is to condemn someone else's personal opinions and personal convictions and the little insignificant day to day differences in peoples lives.
ie: most people are taught that you cannot participate in a lottery or a casino or just a friendly poker game. it is not something they have learned from the bible, it is something that they have been taught by individuals that prefer fishing,hunting or ball games as entertainment rather.
I have not ever had one person that added this particular law to the bible that could pick their own bible up open it and cite it from the bible.
Now if one chooses not to do it for one reason or another that is OK too, but that does not mean it apply to every person on the earth who claims to be a christian. the same with music, denominations and everyday decisions in life in general most of them are personal choices and/or convictions and most notably traditional learning's that carry their weight.
some Christians will not listen to any kind of music out side of gospel music. and every song is nothing more than someones feelings or personal experiences in life. A story that someone has to tell only in a form accompanied by music notes. Which if you know anything about music you know there are only 7 alphabetic notes in the music scale, which are accompanied by 5 additional flats or sharps of the same original 7. Now regardless whether I'm in church the town square or on a creek bank if i play a song consisting of the chords C,F,G it is the same instrument making the sound the same notes forming the chord progression the only thing different is the words and the melody. So how can i speak evil of the instrument or the note that creates the sound.
however i may use certain language that may be deemed inappropriate to some listeners in any environment where they may be expressed or maybe just in certain environments. but that is not to say that the music or the lyrics are meant to be an evil or ill attempt only that they might not be appropriate to the circumstance or to the listener.
I myself love old country,Rock and Gospel but i am devoted to playing the blues and learning new blues licks and riffs because i love the sound and the style and the truth that is being conveyed through the stories of blues music And Blues in particular has a great value to our history as American whites and African Americans Truths and feelings that cannot be related through History books alone.

Posted by travlr423 (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 4:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

my2cents, Sorry for the long rambling, but my point being we are all creatures created by one creator and all though we are all made in the same likeness we each are uniquely different in our own way. It does not make us evil just different with different views and opinions about life. But as long as we all understand that we are subject to the same original creator The giver of eternal life and death we all share the same notes just transformed into many different melodies.

Posted by notnalC (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 5:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)

How about this. In this day and age, I KNOW someone has a video from the event. Camera phone, etc. That will tell the story.

Posted by mkjhs012 (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 5:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

i actually attended en fuego this year, and it isnt all about the music. people share their testimonies. people get saved. music is just a form of worshiping that teens like. when you were a teen did you like just sitting around in a pew reading the bible, probably not. i bet if you had something like en fuego when you were a teenager you would be there. music is the most used forms of worship. i was listening to skillet (Christian Band) when i gave my life to follow God. the lyrics in the songs made me think of how much better my life would be if i was with God. yes, it is upbeat but the lyrics mean the same. God is in control. We need more love in this world. All that we have is hate. You should just be happy that people are accepting God into their lives. Stop Complaining.

Posted by kittycreek (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 7:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Ummm...

What's "body surfing???

Boy, I really AM old and out of touch!

Posted by kittycreek (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 7:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Is that where people walk on the shoulders of others standing close together in a crowd?

I've never attended one of these events and I doubt I ever will. Not because I disapprove but because I don't like big crowds and sweltering heat. However, I'm a live and let live kind of person. If it’s not your thing then don't go. What's with all the judging?

Posted by my2cents (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 8:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Trav.. I understand that we all have a conscience and some things are simply left up to one's own conscience. If I gave the impression that upbeat music is wrong then I apologize. I certainly didn't mean that. And I am sure that this events coordinators had the best of intentions creating such an event. However, I have a problem in general with marketting worship. I mean in other words using up beat hip hop music simply to attract potential worshippers. If you remember Jesus even taught children. He encouraged them to come to him and actually referenced several of his teachings to young children. I understand that a boring sermon may not appeal to a young person, so different methods of teaching may be necessary in order to teach them about God. But when I read of young people body surfing I feel any act of holy worship or teaching would be tainted and thus become unacceptable. The scriptural reference that helps me to appreciate this is at 1st Corinthians 14:40 encouraging all things to take place decently. Would a dangerous activity be considered decent in God's eyes? What about the fact that this was going on at a place that was for the purpose of worship or teaching about God or one may call it a Holy purpose. Aren't Holy acts of worship to be treated with respect? Mark 11:15 is where Jesus threw those out of the temple that were selling and buying because they were not showing the proper respect at a place of worship? God did give many very specific laws and principles though that outline what he approves of or does not approve of that would not be a conscience matter. Although body surfing is not specifically mentioned in the Bible based on the scriptural principles found in the Bible I would view it as unacceptable worship. Body surfing is known to be a dangerous activity. If I apply the scriptural principle at Ecclesiastes 7:17 I understand that a person desiring to follow the Bible would not participate in such risks. In conclusion, my point is some things are left up to one's conscience for example music just as long as it doesn't specifically violate Christian principles such as by using dirty language. On many matters we have God's opinion in his written Word the Bible that specifically outlines what he does require of His worshippers. But I thank you for sharing your opinion with me and I respect how you feel. Also, as I said before I am sure this events planners had good intentions.

Posted by kittycreek (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 8:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Graves

Sounds like that "church leader" wanted to play the role of passing the judgements. I see a lot of that going on.

That was a pretty long post--are you homesick?

BTW, does anyone know what's become of the Dude? I hope he's OK.

Posted by kittycreek (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 9:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Bless your heart.

Christmas will be here for we know it. I feel a little panic comming on about that, time passes sooo quickly!

Posted by kimmy4ua (anonymous) on September 2, 2009 at 6:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)

That was funny, i don't care who you are (larry the cable guy)...LOL