Posted by PrAaHe (anonymous) on August 31, 2009 at 11:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"A total 318 confirmed decisions were recorded. Many trained counselors, among them pastors and youth pastors, prayed with those who responded."

"Man..this music is the devil and cant possibly lead ANYBODY to God.."

Posted by PhilBurnette (anonymous) on August 31, 2009 at 11:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Get over yourself PrAaHe....no one has said that there were NO real conversions. Nor has anyone said that everyone there was insincere. What we have been saying is that secular rock and roll is not the best way, or even a good way, to go about it.

Quit being so argumentative, or is it really just pomposity and arrogance?

Posted by 62slingerlands (anonymous) on August 31, 2009 at 11:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Is this a serious conversation you two are having? Is there some implication that saving has to be done in church? Or that "Have Thine Own Way, Lord" has to be playing at the time? I don't quite understand.

Posted by PrAaHe (anonymous) on August 31, 2009 at 11:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Well, thats not what i saw on the other thread. People called it a pig in a dress. If it's leading people to God (and as you can see, it is), then what's the issue?

Posted by PrAaHe (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 12:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Wow..i guess people just cant handle the changing times. It isnt done the way it was done 100 years ago when they were kids, so it must be evil and wrong.

Posted by 62slingerlands (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 12:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Okay, I went back and read the thread from the previous story, and now I'm caught up... here are a few anecdotes that might prove worthy of conversation:

Several years ago my son was told by the youth pastor at the second largest church in the county that he was hellbound if he didn't stop listening to secular music... on the Sunday after he got his drivers license, he moved his letter to to the church up the road.

I went to Promise Keepers in 1995, which was more like an Amway convention than anything else. There were tons of people in the aisles after being hopped up on endless nondescript praise choruses and hours of happy preaching and sleep deprivation. What happened to all those folks?

I have been to southern gospel concerts, 'scuse me, "singins" where people sat on their coolers, and they weren't all full of Nehi Orange.

Finally, A man was driving over a bridge and noticed another man standing at its ledge, apparently about to jump. He slammed on his brakes, ran over to the man and said "Stop, don't do it,"
"Why shouldn't I," the man replied.
"Well, there's so much to live for."
"Like what?"
"Well, are you religious or are you an atheist?"
"Religious."
"Me, too. Are you Catholic or Protestant?"
"Protestant."
"Me, too. Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?"
"Baptist."
"Me, too. Northern or Southern?"
"Southern."
"Me, too. SBC or CBF?
"SBC, of course"
"Of course. Baptist Faith & Message 1963 or 2000?
"2000."
"Us, too. Traditional or Contemporary service?"
"Well, sorta blended..."
"Die, heretic!" He pushed the fellow off the bridge.

Bottom line, people need the Lord. They may not all find them the way we did - Junior Hill won't live forever.

Posted by 62slingerlands (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 12:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)

... well, at least not on Earth.

Posted by PhilBurnette (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 1:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)

PrAaHe...please try to grow up. You are only trying to rile someone up. Guess what? It is not working.

Posted by Rogue135 (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 8:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)

ARE YOU PEOPLE SERIOUS?!!!! I have been attending enfuego since its start at the old location. There is absolutely nothing wrong about it! The music differs from Pop, Rock, and Rap...but it's all Christian! Kids don't all like the same style of music, so they get different genres to come to the event!! It seems like there's always one person who has to make a big fuss. Well guess what, I'm 24 years old... I don't like some of the styles of music out there, but others do - that's why we're all different, the world would be pretty boring if we were all the same. There are different styles of Christian music just like there are different styles of other music! You people need to get over yourselves. People were saved at this event and here you are nit-picking it. As far as the kids getting hurt... they're kids!!!! There were several high-energy artists there... the kids got excited. When I was a teenager I would have been right in there with them. The lady that talked about the injuries didn't know what she was talking about anyway. The kids that got airlifted were not bystanders, they were goofing off - like kids do...that should be no reflection of the event. Kids will be kids.
I think if you can't find the good in this event... you need to shut your mouths! And just out of curiosity... how many of you that are bashing enfuego actually attended it, or have ever attended it?

Posted by chiltontransplant (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 8:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Would we rather our kids go to a country western concert, a hip hop concert, etc., etc.,? Or, would we rather them go to a contemporary christian concert? I'm not comfortable with A LOT of the music these bands play and I can't understand a lot of the lyrics. However, what lyrics I do understand leads me to the conclusion that I would rather my kids listen to these groups rather than the secular hip hop and country western groups. Could it be that a lot of us older folks are judging this music/event while listening to our favorite country/classic rock radio station? Just a thought!!!

Posted by ewbigbob (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 9:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)

As a former resident (but not a native) of Clanton, this is only the SECOND time I have felt moved to comment on other's comments. The only other time I did I was blasted by a frequent poster who is also a former resident, so I have been intimidated (no big deal, though!). Folks, the dialogue about music styles is almost as old as Christainity itself. All I want to say is let's keep the focus on Jesus and the worship of Him. If Enfuego or Christian rock/rap ain't for you, that's okay. Certainly none of you think there is only ONE WAY to worship?? I personally find my parent's church kinda boring, but I sure respect their right to worship in the way they want to. I certainly don't feel it is right to be critical of the way someone else worships Him. (Ok now, please be gentle with me, kwsrgraves!!!)

Posted by PhilBurnette (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 9:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Rogue135...like some others you really need to mature and pay attention. If you had read the comments here and at the other article you would have seen we have attended in the past and know whereof we speak.

Several of us have stated there IS some good done but that does not mean we approve of the basic concept of using worldly concepts in the pursuit. As brother Graves asked (paraphrased) "If a pornographer put out an issue where the Bible was quoted would that make it acceptable?" NO!

As to your insistence on us "shutting our mouths"? Not going to happen sonny boy. We stand by what we say and have served this country for that right. You have it and so do we. Have a nice day.

Posted by Str8_up (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 9:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I am simply amazed.

I have been only been aware of En Fuego for 5 years and have volunteered for the past 3 and I have never heard a negative word about it, honestly. It really is a wonderful event. God has been glorified in so many ways through this ministry. I have no idea how people can sit there and nit pick and look for only the negatives in God's work through the many many people who volunteer their time and efforts to affect change in the lives of young people.

I will continue to pray for and support En Fuego. I will continue to pray for those who dedicate themselves to doing what God has called them to do. Lives are being changed and an impact is being made for the Kingdom. Be encouraged in that.

Posted by PhilBurnette (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 10:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)

ewbigbob...well thought out and said. Some here would rather Graves, I and others who think like us never again post. But that is a dream they will never see come to fruition. We have the right to state our opinions too. You stated yours respectfully and should not be attacked for that. We have criticized some of the methods but hold nothing against the brothers and sisters who use them. Indeed, we love and pray for them all.

Posted by Machelle (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 10:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Again I say, need more supervision. My kids say that drinking, sex, and even smoking pot goes on at this event.

Posted by REK1138 (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 10:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Teenagers are not going to be drawn to traditional church services, they're not, bottom line, end of story. You can lament all you want about how ungodly contemporary services and music are but in the end you're completely wasting your time. Another way to put it, you are producing zero fruit. Furthermore, you're putting up walls between not only yourself and fellow believers but yourself and the unsaved. Ridiculous generalizations, wholesale dismissals, taking one or two idle opinions and making grandiose, all encompassing statements about an entire generation is the very reason that teenagers rebel and close themselves off because they can smell a hypocrite a mile away. When I hear Christians condemning fellow Christians because they are different or because they are unwilling to fit into our little molds of what we think religious people should be I cringe. You can't get any farther from what Jesus stands for, from the way He acted on this earth.

We're at war here - and the enemy is not Christian Rock or Christian Rap, it's not concerts or worship services or praise choruses, it's the world itself and every time we bicker and turn our noses up at an entire generation of young people the world is perfectly willing to swoop in and take them from us. And frankly, from all I see, the world is winning the war right now.

Posted by Str8_up (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 10:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"WERE THERE 318 SOULS SAVED? OR 126 FIRST TIME DECISIONS????"

He said 318 went to the counseling tent. 126 were first time decisions, 166 were re commitments and the rest were either to enter Christian service or simply had prayer needs.

Posted by REK1138 (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 10:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Posted by KW..."So, if Larry Flynt has a whole issue of Hustler dedicated to God with nude women holding a bible on every page and quoting scripture, this would be a "contemporary" way of worship? Under this "new age" train of thought, this would be acceptable.

It's still a pig in a dress."

Hands down the most ridiculous thing I think you've ever posted. So you're comparing pornography to contemporary Christian music? You're a smart feller KW - look up the word fallacy and get back to me. We can make asinine, meaningless fallacy ridden arguments all day long if you want to.

Posted by PhilBurnette (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 10:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)

REK...you are a real piece of work. You judge and condemn those who make generalizations when you do the very same thing but to a greater extent.

In your previous post you say in one place - "Ridiculous generalizations, wholesale dismissals, taking one or two idle opinions and making grandiose, all encompassing statements about an entire generation is the very reason that teenagers rebel and close themselves off because they can smell a hypocrite a mile away."

In another place you say "Teenagers are not going to be drawn to traditional church services, they're not, bottom line, end of story."

You contradict yourself. And you do not know ALL teens. Ours went to traditional services because they found them more honest and enlightening. MANY teens attend traditional services every week. You do not know whereof you speak in this instance.

Some of your points have differing measures of validity but this one has none.

Posted by REK1138 (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 10:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"WERE THERE 318 SOULS SAVED? OR 126 FIRST TIME DECISIONS????"

He said 318 went to the counseling tent. 126 were first time decisions, 166 were re commitments and the rest were either to enter Christian service or simply had prayer needs."

It doesn't matter Str8 - ain't you been listening? Best them kids go to hell and read Hustler magazine than taint that old time religion cause Jesus Himself sang from a hymnal and talked in King James English.

I'm done arguing this point. I only pray that the Lord will set you straight one day and that all those you turn your nose up at who are going hell might find someone else willing to get off their high horse and tell them about Jesus.

Posted by PhilBurnette (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 10:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)

REK...read my previous post. Looks like you did EXACTLY what you accuse Graves of...."We can make asinine, meaningless fallacy ridden arguments all day long if you want to."

Posted by REK1138 (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 10:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"REK...you are a real piece of work. You judge and condemn those who make generalizations when you do the very same thing but to a greater extent.

In your previous post you say in one place - "Ridiculous generalizations, wholesale dismissals, taking one or two idle opinions and making grandiose, all encompassing statements about an entire generation is the very reason that teenagers rebel and close themselves off because they can smell a hypocrite a mile away."

In another place you say "Teenagers are not going to be drawn to traditional church services, they're not, bottom line, end of story."

You contradict yourself. And you do not know ALL teens. Ours went to traditional services because they found them more honest and enlightening. MANY teens attend traditional services every week. You do not know whereof you speak in this instance.

Some of your points have differing measures of validity but this one has none."

Fine then, please add the worst "MOST" to the front of my post. Argument still stands. I've been working with teenagers for close to 20 years. This is based on my experience not my assumption from afar. I too have seen many teenagers sit in traditional services and I've seen MOST of these same teenagers (around 90%) bolt from the church like a scalded dog the day they get out from under their parents authority. Some eventually come back...some.

Said I was done...now I'm done.

Posted by PhilBurnette (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 10:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)

In your 20 years I am sure you have done much good and I thank you for that. I too have labored long in these fields, 27 years and counting all told. Rarely will we all stand in total agreement over such non-essentials.

That said, you and I will just have to agree to disagree in this one. In many cases the end does not justify the means.

Posted by CGFD1900 (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 10:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Enfuego is my life I've been apart of it for five years now and as soon as its over I can't wait for the next year. please pray that God will give the board and other vol. the guidance and direction that his will be done at this event once again. Praise God for the more than 300 lives that were changed Saturday through this event!

Posted by November162000 (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 10:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)

PhilBurnette: My hat's off to you! You managed to get REK (whose opinions I usually agree with, except in this case) to make many of your points for you! And another thing, it really gets my goat when people that most likely have never worn the uniform of their country tells those of us who have to shut up or keep our opinions to ourselves. It almost makes me wish that I could have been selective in whose right to free speech it was that I was helping to protect when I went to war. I'm like you, I won't shut up simply because someone that is most likely a snot-nosed kid tells me too.

Posted by PrAaHe (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 11:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"MANY teens attend traditional services every week. You do not know whereof you speak in this instance."

I attend traditional services every week. It's not because i prefer that kind of music (to be honest, i quit liking it the billionth time i heard it.), but because that's all we have here. If we get a church here that plays contemporary music, i'd love to attend. But until then, I'll have to settle for 200 yr old hymns.

Posted by PrAaHe (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 11:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Oh, and had I not been raised in church, I doubt I'd ever even attended more than a couple of services with the old hymns.

Posted by AUGIRL (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 2:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I do not agree with this "worship" service. People want to say that kids today need to be able to worship in their own way. Well, I believe that is what is wrong with so many children today. "Whatever" is allowed. Parents and yes even some pastors feel that this should be allowed. We have gotten so far away from traditional values in order to "accept" everyone's way of worship. Children should be taught to be respectful in a church setting. We have too many pastor...self appointed...and youth ministers that believe that dancing in church, body surfing, moshing, eating, drinking, talking, etc. is all acceptable behavior for kids. All these behaviors reflect what they are being taught a church? That's crazy. Some of the "independent" churches that allow dancing and carrying on in GOD'S HOUSE need to get back to the basics of the Bible. I see so many times these pastors apparently approving of their youth's behavior since they are not outwardly disagreeing and this is leading to the corruption of our children. I see things posted on emails and websites from some of the "strong leaders" of these churches downing someone for posting things that probably should not have been posted but then there they sit drinking alcohol. They are on stage singing to the Lord but at home having a drink. Is that what Christians are supposed to do? Condemn others then do things God would not approve of. We have groups who first are "Christian" singers but then the market is not open for "Christian" singers so they become "Contemporary Christian" singers. If that doesn't sell records then they take another step DOWN...not UP and begin singing a little more off color music in the name of God. All being encouraged by their own parents who either "don't have a clue", "is living through their children", or believes they...using God...know what should happen in someone's life. En Fuego began as a

Posted by AUGIRL (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 2:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

good, Christian fellowship and worship time but has now turned into a wild, crazy, body surfing, screaming, "show". If you believe ALL those there get filled with the Spirit then you are sadly wrong. Children are being told that no matter what they do it's ok because their church loves them. This is not true. Too many pastors are trying to be kids again themselves and are out to have their name in the spotlight...not Gods. These pastors and youth ministers are behaving like, talking like, and living like the kids. Of course the kids are going to want to be a part of that. God speaks in a still small voice not screaming from a stage, slinging his head around, humping up and down on stage and encouraging kids to act in reckless behaviors. I believe that the "old" way of worshiping "ain't" so bad. I am so grateful that I grew up in a home of Christian parents who not only talked the talk but walked the walk. I learned to respect others, sit quietly in church so not to disturb others from worshiping, pray to the Lord not to other people, and to be in the background saving lives not in the forefront patting myself on the back for all I do for the Lord. I am 28 years old and do not consider myself too old to comment on this nor too young either.

Posted by Mof2 (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 2:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Amen, AUGIRL!!!

Posted by PhilBurnette (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 2:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)

AUGIRL...thank you. Your parents should be very proud of the person you have become.

Posted by November162000 (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 2:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

AUGIRL: You are right on target. Reading your post gives me a little hope that all is not lost, yet, in our society, and that with enough young people like yourself who have their heads out of the clouds (or somewhere a little darker) we might just make it after all. Like Phil said, your parents should be proud of you, and I'm sure they are. I am and as far as I know I don't even know you!

Posted by DCZ70 (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 3:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Wow! I can't believe some of the comments coming from people on here. I accepted Christ almost 4 yrs ago and the person who led me to Christ is Johnny Giles. I am not praising Johnny's name, because I know Christ is the one who used him to soften my hard heart and hang out with me and not condemn me for the things I was doing. He loved me as a friend through all my faults and that is what got me started going to church period. I feel like I know his heart and he is a soldier for God. I don't really care for some of the music either, but if you think there is only one brand of music to reach people you are wrong in my opinion. We are all committing one of the worst sins by judging anybody by their looks or music. Sure everything has room for improvement and I am sure it will be looked at. We all tend to look at the negative and not at the kids that commited their lives to God! I know some of the people posting things on here and I know several things they have done if brought to the light they would probably be condemned just like some people are doing this event. I for one will not condemn anyone for their past, because mine was not great , especially spiritually. I still fall short everyday and so does everyone else, we all should examine our own lives before judging someone else. I am not trying to call out anyone or think my opinion is any more valuable than any other poster here, but I was at the event Saturday night and I have to say I was blessed.

Thank you God for all of those people who accepted you into their hearts and lives.

Darryl Cummings

Posted by theunknown (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 3:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I suggest the clanton advertiser limit the comments to 140 characters. Some of you just go on and on..........

Posted by DCZ70 (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 3:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Sorry lol!

Posted by Khionne (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 3:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

What's funny is how people are mentioning "service" for their country, and then turning right around and mentioning scriptures. Kind of contradictory, no?

Posted by goAUtigers (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 4 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I too was at the event and I am amazed that a so called Christian would say that just because they don’t worship the Lord the way they do they are not Christians or do not have the Faith. I grew up in a Christian home and was baptized when I was 8 years old because my father said I should walk the isle. You see he was one of those old time preachers that has been so glorified and talked about here in this blog; now they taught the right way to be come a Christian was walk the isle and believe in that old time religion stuff and sing gospel songs. I watched as all the deacons and so called Christians would stand up and tell everyone how to live and then watch the hypocrites run outside right after preaching so they could smoke (if you want to talk about things the Bible tells you not to do; one is to not defile your body).

Before you talk about what goes on first show up and see. There may be the things someone said that happened there(sex, drugs, and pot), but anytime you have that many people at any place your going to have those to do bad things. Just like any other situation if you teach your kids to do the right thing they won’t be where that is happening.

I don’t know all the bands, but I do know Thalon very well. Wes, Jeremy, and Austin’s heart is in the right place. They are solid Christians. I know this as you can see it the way they act around youth as well as in the songs they sing. Not all songs they do are Christian, but not have lyrics that offend. No they don’t sing “Give Me That Old Time Religion” like my daddy did in 1969, but they do an excellent “It Is Well With my Soul”. IT”S NOT 1969 ANYMORE. No more than I liked those old gospel songs back then do the youth of today. Does that make me or them less Christian; that is for God to decide when I stand before Him in Judgment (all my sins will be before him). Do I body surf-I would but I’m 46 and it would hurt me and them if I fell.

Those who think that there were not true conversions need to go back to where every you came from and let God decide who gets into Heaven. I know I am getting into Heaven and I am pretty sure he doesn’t need our help in deciding who will or won’t get there.

Posted by jherron (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 4:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Hey guys my name is Jeff Herron and I am a youth pastor in Clanton, Al. You guys are so funny, you are speaking against spreading the gospel of Jesus Christ! If you will search hard enough you will find something wrong at every event! Some of you guys spoke about brothers keeper, you know there where several people mugged outside the event, and also several cars broken into. How about this, Some people did not accept Jesus either, he did some stuff that affended the religous. Johnny Giles you don't owe anybody an apology, infact they owe you one. Guys this is an event to further the kingdom of God. Enfuego was a huge success with salvations and honostly that makes some people upset because they can't relate to teenagers today! KEEP MOVING FORWARD ENFUEGO!!! WE DO THIS FOR THE GLORY OF GOD AND NOT PEOPLE!!!!

Posted by PrAaHe (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 4:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)

goAUtigers, jherron, right on.

Love the nick by the way, goAUtigers.

Posted by mrjones0913 (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 6:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

This is so HORRIBLE! You people grow up. I am a christian and I am so grateful for En Feugo. You know there are a million ways to bring people to the Lord. You can ask them , do it at camp, through work or through music. So what if two people were air lifted. There were many souls saved and PRAISE the Lord they were. To all you who want to judge this as the work of the devil maybe the devil is in you. I hear the praises of the Lord and know that I am saved. I rejoice in singing praises. The work of the devil is all those who are bucking people who are trying to work for the Lord. And by the way what makes us able to qualify the works of the devil? The only way you can judge those who are working for the Lord is being God himself. I think that the opposite has occured here, I believe that the economy has many of you working for the devil..... Believe me when I say one thing God pays more!!!!! Now trust in the Lord and stop being such a fool.

Posted by PhilBurnette (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 7:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I too would like an answer on the swipe at the military. I imagine Khionne is one who the military would not accept so now he (she? it?) hates the military?

Jeff Herron, you apparently need to take a reading comprehension class. None of us have spoken against spreading the Gospel. I am all for that if done with dignity and respect.

Some of us have expressed our sincerely held belief that using any means available to draw a crowd is not a proper way to spread the Gospel. We believe it, we say it.

As a Chaplain (ordained minister) myself, I say to you, quit sitting of judgment of others. Start being part of the solution instead of part of the problem. The "anything goes" mentality has led directly to many of the problems we see today.

Posted by PrAaHe (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 8:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

kw, any word on where this robbery happened?

Posted by chilton77 (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 8:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Wow... it amazes me how some people talk on here to each other. It's terrible!!!! Jeff Herron and goAUtigers are right on. Anytime you get that many people together- especially the majority of them being teenagers- there's bound to be some negative things that happen. My 16 year old went this year as he has for the last 3 years and he told me about some of these things. He mainly saw kids making out. He said that there are some there that smoke pot, but they do it away from the crowd. The majority of people that go to this event are there for the right reasons. I mean, you guys are making it sound like they are having wild crazy sex with everyone and snorting lines of crack. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather my son not be exposed to this, but it's gonna happen sooner or later whether we like it or not. But, honestly If all my kid sees when he goes to this is some PDA and smoking weed, then to me, that's God's way of preparing him for the real world! Crap, when Oak Mountain had the grassy noll you saw that much no matter what concert you went to. This is a great event and I completely support it.

Posted by mrjones0913 (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 9:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)

You can be a soldier, marine, air man or any thing and still be a christian. I am an army brat and my Dad served this country for 0 + years and nobody can judge his salvation. Thank you to all of our men and women who serve our country and those veterns and MAY GOD BLESS YOU. It is funny in a disaster like 9/11 those soldiers who helped our loved ones were being prayed for, how devilsh

Posted by mrjones0913 (anonymous) on September 1, 2009 at 9:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I meant 20 + years

Posted by gonefishin (anonymous) on September 2, 2009 at 12:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Mr. Giles, I am sure you are following these post. Whatever people say here or there opinions or whatever questions they want answered matters none. It's obvious you and many others are listening to the right one. If not, this event would have dwindled long ago. Instead, it keeps growing even through adversity. I hope to get off my kister and help next year.

Posted by urentitled2myopinion (anonymous) on September 2, 2009 at 5:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)

This was a public event supposedly sponsored by"nonprofit' organizations,so what's the problem discussing the questions asked in the above post?

"Was there any event insurance policy to cover injuries or perhaps a death? If anyone sues over these injuries mentioned, who is responsible? Now, that may or may not be far fetched. But it is REALITY. I know my church has an insurance policy should someone be injured. Does this event?"

Posted by medplexdoc (anonymous) on September 2, 2009 at 7:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I really do hope that Graves stays 1800 miles away because he seems to be nothing but a crap starter and you dont mock Johnny Giles because he is christian man with one thing in mind. He is trying to spread the gospel of Jesus Christ. You need to grow up and get a life you jerk!

Posted by medplexdoc (anonymous) on September 2, 2009 at 8:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)

urentitled Yes this event does have an insurance policy and I know that they pay dearly for one days worth of insurance

Posted by PhilBurnette (anonymous) on September 2, 2009 at 10 a.m. (Suggest removal)

medplexdoc...You don't know Graves and your insults do not serve you well here. They only show a small-minded and possibly inadequately educated person who can not coherently express thoughts without resorting to anger and the terminology thereof.

PLEASE...grow up before subjecting us to any further proof of your inadequacies. Thank you.

Posted by medplexdoc (anonymous) on September 2, 2009 at 10:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)

PhilB ...oh but thank you I will be the one to decide who I know or dont know but thanks anyway and as for your little frail comments just remember this that I do not resort to anger or name calling only now and again but I am very educated so dont even tempt me with your antics therefore to let you know i do know steve graves and he should not dish it out if he cant take it. sorry philly willy but i also dont care what you think either

Posted by November162000 (anonymous) on September 2, 2009 at 10:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

PhilBurnette: Apparently this is some of the type of Christianity that was taught at the big fire. Come on medplexdoc, show us some more of your brand of brotherly love and Christ-like behaviour. But first, you might want to prescribe yourself something to calm your fits of anger.

Posted by Str8_up (anonymous) on September 2, 2009 at 11:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)

kwsrgraves,

"Now Johnny Giles posts a comment that contradicts Scott Mims's account of the same event."

What was contradicting?

"But I am publicly asking "EVENT ORGANIZERS" to be HONEST here. Who profits, how much, and what "cuts" are "reimbursed"?"

I would just like to suggest that you "man up" and take this up personally with Johnny and the rest of the En Fuego board. You are 1800 miles away and throwing out ridiculous allegations. If you can't meet them face to face and speak to them like a man, pick up a phone and call them.

This is a free event, there is no profit. En Fuego relies on the Grace of God and donations to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ. IF there is any money left over it goes 100% into next years event. If you truly want to know who profited, it was the 300 plus individuals who were touched by God's message of hope and forgiveness.

I would further like to suggest that you just go out today and do something positive for someone. Share the Love of Jesus. You'll really feel better about yourself, it's so much more effective than bashing fellow Christians and goes much further in helping the cause of Christianity. The devil loves to see us arguing amongst ourselves.

Posted by PhilBurnette (anonymous) on September 2, 2009 at 12:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

medplexdoc...If you are educated, and it is not reflected in your serious grammatical deficiencies, then you must simply be rude and have personality disorders.

It matters not to me if you care what I think. Until you can express yourself with more maturity I will take you for just what you are.

Posted by cbtm (anonymous) on September 2, 2009 at 12:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

ok ? for all of the people trashing this event where i might add many souls were saved. We are all called as christians to lead others to christ right? That being said if there are lost souls reading these comments of "christians" judging one another and Enfuego do you think this type of trashing people for different kinds of worship an ministry is going to make one of those lost souls actully want to be a christian! This child like behavior is doing more damage to the kingdom of God than Enfuego ever could. FACTS are God has blessed Enfuego every year many many souls are lead to thier salvation at this event.All bands are christin bands an nearly all of them have their music played on christian radio stations.This event not only music..many of the bands,the mc,and the speaker all minister to the thousands. Nobody makes a dime from this event except the bands. I work every year as a volunteer and know Everyone involved are servents of God that believe in this event and the work that God does throught it.I'm sure everything will be looked at closely an changes made where need be. An parents if your children saw illeagel activity happening that is awful but with that many people everything obviously wasnt caught but if anyone that sees anything of that nature happening would to tell one the sheriffs deputies, or one of the over 500 volunteers that activity would have been promptly stopped and handled i can assure you. For those of you that have never attended Enfuego an people making it sound like this is a event with just a bunch of kids an very few adults this is NOT the case..most kids come with their parents,friends parents or their youth groups. I check in with my kids either by phone or walking around an finding them several times throughout the event and have never had a problem.Lets please stop trying to tear down this event and the organizers of this event and get in there and support them. As christians we are to help one another to build the kingdom of God not come aganist one another because our form of worship or ministry is different!..bottom line kids love this form of ministry are blessed from it..i challenge you if you are againt contemporary worship music just open your mind listen to the words of the music an you will find even though it may not be for you it can minister to people that doesnt care for your southern gospel.We have to step outside our comfort zones if we are going to reach all the lost and dying souls.

Posted by AUGIRL (anonymous) on September 2, 2009 at 12:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I am still surprised...though not sure why...at the amount of anger than comes from "Christians". My opinion and everyone else's on here is strictly our opinion. You voice yours loud and clear but then come back with anger and attack other's opinions. I guess one of the things that gets me on here is some people are totally honest about how the live their lives and what they say while others want to tell others how wrong their opinions are and glorify people or groups who have been seen by me personally drinking, swearing, and exactly living the life one would think a Christian should not live. It seems we all seem to forget that if we call ourselves Christians there are those around us looking to see exactly how Christians are supposed to act, talk, behave, and worship. If you are going to talk the talk then please walk the walk. I have had several teenagers tell me that they have seen this also and it makes them question what being a Christian is. Their opinions were if we can live like them then sure we want to be a Christian. Too may kids see all the yelling, screaming, jumping around, and surfing and think, I want to be a part of this, being a Christian is awesome! However, they don't always get the importance of reverance, respect and the true importance of allowing Christ into your life. Not to say that those saved at En Fuego aren't really saved but in the events I have been to like this kids get caught up in the moment and join in but it is not always a true commitment. We should never give up on these people but who after En Fuego is left to counsel these kids? Do the leaders of En Fuego make sure that each child that was saved there get the proper long term counseling they deserve and need? Just curious?

Posted by medplexdoc (anonymous) on September 2, 2009 at 12:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)

cbtm, you are so right and I apologize to you and everyone for acting childish. I just cant stand to see someones name being thrown into the mix when this person has put so much blood sweat and tears into Enfuego for so many years. This man has been a part in so many people finding the Lord. He has helped people when they were at their lowest and no one would even give them the time of day. I HOPE from now on I can refrain my anger and be more level headed when it comes to my posting. It really really gets under my skin to see a good mans name being dragged around. I hope that next year will be bigger and better than ever and that the organizers will not let this negative ill-will discourage them.

Posted by travlr423 (anonymous) on September 2, 2009 at 1:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The only thing i would like to know, is who is this God you all are serving that would cause such contention, anger and hostility and persecution one toward another. Who ever he is I dont think i really want anything to do with him.
However if you find he is not working out for you. There is a man called Jesus you should meet him. he will replace hate with love and compassion, violence with peace, persecution with patience and understanding, bitterness with forgiveness.
If you are interested you can read all about him and his ways of Grace,Love and Mercy in a Book called The Holy Bible
I promise you he is nothing like the God you all are serving here.
And the best part he is offering FREE invitations to anyone who wants to take advantage of his offer.
But you should not waste any time this OFFER may expire without further NOTICE.

Posted by medplexdoc (anonymous) on September 2, 2009 at 1:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

November, yeah I did get a little bit hasty but I am better now. I just cant stand to see someone belittle an honest fellow. Have a good one.

Posted by cbtm (anonymous) on September 2, 2009 at 1:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

thank you medplexdoc.I to stand firmly behind Johnny he is truly a great man of God with a sevants heart. i stand behind each and every member of the Enfuego board i trust each of them their hearts are most definatly in the right place.God will bless Enfuego next year and every year after i truly believe God is up to something even more miracoulus then we have seen with this event and thats why the devil has bought this opposition againt Enfuego to try to discourage johnny and the rest of the board but it will not work they know God has called each of them and givin them such a heart for this ministry that they will not stop until God instructs them to do so.Excited about Enfuego 2010.

Posted by Str8_up (anonymous) on September 2, 2009 at 1:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Do the leaders of En Fuego make sure that each child that was saved there get the proper long term counseling they deserve and need?"

Each counselor is asked to first pray with the individual(s) and celebrate the decisions made, and then to fill out a form gathering name, phone number, age, decision made and church preference. A database of these forms has been created.

There is a group of individuals who use this database to call each person (children and adults ages ranging from 7 to 56) that provided a phone number. On these phone calls the person will be lifted up in prayer and be asked if they are currently involved in a church. If they are not, they will be encouraged to find a church of their choice to attend and even assisted in finding one in their area.

Additionally, all of the churches entered from the decision cards will be called and informed of the people from their church who made a decision so that those pastors/youth pastors can also follow up.

Posted by travlr423 (anonymous) on September 2, 2009 at 1:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I find it very strange that those who proclaim Christianity does not seem to have an argument with the sinners which is noted to be the enemy. But more with each other in the regards of what it takes to be a christian. And it seems as though one christian can not even recognise another by the power of their spirit.
And the way i understand the bible mature Christians spirits should bear witness one with another.
And how come there are no proclaimed sinners on this thread bashing this event or those who claim to be saved. Its only some who claim salvation who are bashing one another.
I really wonder how many people are reading these comments who do not confess to be saved that are sitting back laughing and saying to themselves what a bunch of idiots who are proclaiming such a wonderful life in Christ but yet their gnashing teeth are as those of a pack of wild dogs tearing at the flesh of a flock of sheep who have lost their Shepard or a mad man or fool who has betrayed and denied his master.

Posted by November162000 (anonymous) on September 2, 2009 at 2:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I don't really care if there was money made with this event or not, or if it was a "not-for-profit" event or not. I don't care if someone becomes a millionaire from the proceedings, I really don't. I don't care if people think this type of thing is Godly, or if, like me, they think it's worldly, I really don't. To each his own. What I do care about is with our county so broke it can't pay attention, how much money did the sheriff's department, various fire departments, and other agencies spend on this event. Now, I'm sure that many, even possibly the sheriff himself, will likely chime in and say that NO extra money was spent on fuel, equipment, or personnel, over-time or what have you, but I will find that very hard to believe. I really don't believe that the county as a whole should be expected, in our present economic climate especially, to shoulder ANY additional expense for any event held on private property that is not an officially County sponsered event, i.e. peach festival, fall festival, etc. This is only my opinion, and it is no more or no less important than anyone else's who might think otherwise. However, I don't think anyone could argue that the county is in a healthy enough financial condition to be able chew this expense up and swallow it. Even if it only amounted to fifty dollars.

Posted by travlr423 (anonymous) on September 2, 2009 at 2:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Every time i have the opportunity to observe any topic concerning religious matters the scriptures of the Holy Bible seems to more clearly interpret its meaning and seems much easier to understand.
such as:
Though they honor me with their lips their hearts are far from me.

There is a way unto man that seems right, but in the end brings destruction.

Let every man work out his own soul salvation.

The tongue is like a two edged sword full of power over life and death.

The blind cannot lead the blind less they both should stumble and fall.

Though they have eyes to see, still they cannot see.
Though they have ears to hear, still they cannot hear.

The amazing part is so much of the scripture is not referring to the lost sinner but them who claim to be saved and represent the perfect sacrifice who gave his life for the sins of the world.
I have seen wounded and fallen soldiers of war who seem to get more honor and glory for their service than one man who gave his life for every life that ever has or ever will exist.
And the irony of it all it was all out of love and of his own free will.

Posted by JackShepard (anonymous) on September 2, 2009 at 2:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Man, KW, that must be exhausting: travelling cross-country, righting wrongs, making legal inquiriis into the viablity of Non-Profit Organizations, knowing everything...haha!

I wonder what the Apostle Paul would say about all of the backbiting and hatefulness in these comments? I wonder if there is any room in anyone on this site (or any other, for that matter) to look upon what God has blessed and say "Eh, I don't think that's good enough." If so, then you probably need to get to work on the plank in your own eye before going about cleaning out the speck of dust from your brother's.

Posted by KellyLatham (anonymous) on September 2, 2009 at 3:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I think I’m going to have to post this in 2 parts. I did not realize that there was a limit on the size of comments.
First of all, let me say that anyone who knows me knows that I very rarely argue, I don't like to debate, and I hate confrontation, so it's taken me a couple of days to decide to post a comment. I feel sure that there will be some who won't like the comment, but I have not been able to stop thinking about the negative comments that have been posted about En Fuego. I have only been personally involved in En Fuego for a couple of years. But, what I have seen are lost souls being saved. I personally got to counsel with a beautiful, sweet 12 year-old girl who recommited her life to Jesus Christ Saturday night. And, if she or any 1 of those young people who made decisions had been then ONLY person reached by being at En Fuego then the entire event was worth it.
Someone said that using "secular means" was not the best way to go about reaching kids. "Secular" means were not used; the bands, the speakers on that stage Saturday night were Christians. The songs were Christian songs; they were just louder and faster than what we would normally hear at a gospel singing or in church. And, unless you already had their cd, you might not understand every word in every song. But, if you do buy the cd or visit these bands’ websites, just read the words to the songs, without the loud music. Their love for God is reflected in their songs. So, if it makes these young people get excited to worship, then why does it matter how loud the song is or how they are dressed.
Someone else said they knew people who left after the rap started. Well, then they missed out on a lot because the rap was earlier in the event, and there was still a lot of worship after the rap. I heard the testimony of that rapper and how his relationship with Jesus turned his life around, and then he encouraged all of those kids to turn their life over to Jesus to see what a difference He can make in their lives.

Posted by KellyLatham (anonymous) on September 2, 2009 at 3:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Another comment said that they think God is trying to tell us something because people got injured. It's been my experience that the closer I get to the Lord, the harder Satan tries to pull me away from Him. We all hate to see anyone get injured at any event, but I don't think it's a sign from God. We were in the ER just a few weeks ago with our 5 year-old son. He had an accident on the seesaw on a playground. I don't think that means we never need to be on a playground again, nor do I think God was trying to tell us we shouldn't have been there. It was an accident. He was being a 5 year-old, just like these young people were being teenagers. And, I pray that my 5 year-old grows up to be a teenager with a passion for Christ who would be willing to stand on a stage in front of 20,000 people and profess what Jesus has done for him in his life. I hope that I lead a life in front of him that shows him that as Christians we can love the Lord, be passionate about our walk with Him, and have FUN doing it.
If a non-believer were to log onto this site and read these comments, what would they think? Would they read what we are saying and think to themselves, I want what they have? I doubt it. Some of the comments here don’t make being a Christian sound very appealing to someone who has never felt that relationship.
I hope that all those making comments here are Christians. So, as Christians, what is the most important thing here? Reaching lost souls. Advancing God's Kingdom. 318 commitments to Christ, with 126 committing their lives to Christ for the very first time. The most important thing here, and the only thing that really matters is the eternal salvation of these young people. Let's just remember that they are all saved by the same blood that saved each of us. Jesus shed his blood for all of us. It doesn't matter what music was playing, or who helped lead us to Christ, or what we were wearing when we received Him into our lives. The end result, 126 more people will be spending their eternity with our Lord and Savior.
I don't say any of this to start any more arguments, and I have no intentions of posting any more comments. But, I did feel led to defend En Fuego and everyone who had a part in putting it on. I have been blessed to be even a small part of it, and I can't wait to see what God will do through En Fuego in years to come.

Posted by November162000 (anonymous) on September 2, 2009 at 3:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"If a non-believer were to log onto this site and read these comments, what would they think? Would they read what we are saying and think to themselves, I want what they have? I doubt it. Some of the comments here don’t make being a Christian sound very appealing to someone who has never felt that relationship."

I don't know, but some of them might read some of the reports from folks that were there about having seen folks (presumably teenagers, but it could have been the adults) smoking pot, making out, etc., and say "hey man, I believe I'd like some of that action, if I can do that stuff at a church event, heck yeah I'll go". Maybe, maybe not. Just one possible answer to your question.

Posted by Khionne (anonymous) on September 2, 2009 at 3:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Lol at Graves and Phil, but to say and be proud that you were a soldier or veteran and to turn around and quote scriptures from the bible is contradictory. Because being a soldier implies that you have killed people "for your country" which would be shedding of blood, which is stated in the bible as wrong.

Posted by JackShepard (anonymous) on September 2, 2009 at 3:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Khionne,

"Because being a soldier implies that you have killed people" - Really? What if they were medevac or a nurse or an air traffice controller?

Posted by November162000 (anonymous) on September 2, 2009 at 3:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Khionne: Do you think you'd have the Constitutional Right to write something that stupid if someone had never been willing to kill someone else for YOU?

Posted by Khionne (anonymous) on September 2, 2009 at 4:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Jack: You'd still be supporting the act of killing one another in war.

November: Personally, I don't want anyone to kill anyone for me. I mean I'm not supporting OR putting down the military. I'm just saying that being a soldier and going over seas and supporting the war, and then turning around and claiming to be a "devout christian" when you are supporting others being killed is contradictory.

Posted by bama6983 (anonymous) on September 2, 2009 at 4:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Kellylatham well said.

Posted by November162000 (anonymous) on September 2, 2009 at 4:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Khionne: While I am a Christian, I am not a Bible thumper nor am I an authority on the Bible to the extent that I can quote scripture to you, and I wouldn't if I could. That's just me. However, you can find Biblical guidance and authority for one nation to be at war with another. Killing is part of war. I've seen it, and I've participated in it, and there is a very big difference in what I (we) did and murder. To think that there is never a ligitimate need or necessity to kill someone, under ANY circumstances, is naive, at the very least. The fact of the matter is that liberty and freedom have NEVER been secured for a nation by pacifists, but by the soldier on the business end of a gun.

While I respect your right to disagree, I do believe that if you are not comfortable in having had your freedom and liberty delivered to you through the deaths of those who would deny it to you, then I really think you should stop enjoying them. To do otherwise would be hipocriticle and disingenuous. But, that's just me.

Posted by Khionne (anonymous) on September 2, 2009 at 4:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

It's okay for one nation to be at war with another? Maybe back in biblical times when God had ONE nation and ONE group of people as his followers. But today there are Christians all over the world, and to say it's fine to go to war and kill another Christian contradicts Matthew 26:52.

Posted by November162000 (anonymous) on September 2, 2009 at 4:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Well, I guess I'll just have to be in contradiction to Matthew 26:52 then.

Posted by PhilBurnette (anonymous) on September 2, 2009 at 7:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Khionne - let me quote President and retired General of the Army Dwight D. Eisenhower - "I hate war as only a soldier who has lived it can, only as one who has seen its brutality, its futility, its stupidity."

None of us who has worn the uniform, been shot at and had to harm others in the line of duty enjoy it. If someone says they do, they are lying or have serious mental issues. However, throughout history many millions of US citizens have served this country to protect our fellow citizens and the rights they enjoy. Many generations of my family have done so from my ancestors in Scotland who fought beside Robert the Bruce until today when four of my children served/are serving.

We (active and veterans) have endured far more than you will ever know, and did so willingly, for others with no gain to ourselves.

In all sincerity and with complete honesty let me say - IF YOU DO NOT LIKE OR APPRECIATE IT CONSIDER THIS YOUR PERSONAL INVITATION TO LEAVE THIS COUNTRY AND FIND ONE MORE IN LINE WITH YOUR FEELINGS!

Posted by PhilBurnette (anonymous) on September 2, 2009 at 7:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

This line of comments has veered off into so many areas I am going to state my position again, clearly, to try to get it all back on track.

I do NOT feel or wish to show any negativity toward the En Fuego board. I know Kevin George and have for several years. I know Mike Graham, having went to school with him, and consider him a friend. I met Johnny Giles a few times over the the years, being closer friends with his older brother and sister. I have no doubts as to where there hearts are. I also do not doubt their sincerity in witnessing and sharing the Gospel of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Where we differ is in our ideas as to what is and is not appropriate use of different methods of outreach. Who is right and who is wrong? It matters not as this is not an essential tenet of faith.

I do not agree with all the methods and/or products used. Period, end of discussion, no other points to be taken from this post. I love and respect all my brothers and sisters in Christ. We can differ and still all work for the glory of God and to help others.

As to other issues raised here, I have indicated my views and stand 100% by my words.

Posted by Khionne (anonymous) on September 3, 2009 at 12:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm not opposing the military, nor supporting it but stating the fact that a Christian wouldn't "support" the military simply because it's based on killing others.

Posted by November162000 (anonymous) on September 3, 2009 at 9:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Khionne: Were it not for the military and the fact that people have died in wars, do you really think that you would be free now, to the extent that you are? Do you believe that all that have served in the military are non-Christians or hetherns? Are you smart enough to understand where your freedom and liberty came from? It didn't come to you through the efforts of a bunch of conscientious objectors. It came to you through the efforts of millions of men and women who thought that there something that was worth more than their lives, people who were quite willing to die for YOU, and many of whom did just that. Continue, if you wish, looking down your nose at them, even flip them off if you like, lots of brave people died so that you could have that right. I'm just thankful that there are hundreds of millions of people that appreciate their efforts so that their saccrice wasn't wasted on someone like you.

Posted by Rogue135 (anonymous) on September 3, 2009 at 10:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)

PhilBurnette, for your information, I'm a girl... so don't call me sunny boy!!!! And you, sir, don't need to bash me. I was only talking to the people who were bashing Enfuego... so if it didn't pertain to you, don't comment!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's people like you who really do need to SHUT YOUR MOUTH! Oh, and don't bring up "it's a free country.” People like you just say that when they want to complain. This has turned into nothing but a big fuss. If only one person was saved the whole event was worth it. All the stuff that people are fussing about... it doesn't amount to a hill of beans. So we shouldn't even be concerned with it. I'll not post again, becuase nothing else need to be said.
Enfuego is a Christian event. People were saved. End of Story.

Posted by PhilBurnette (anonymous) on September 3, 2009 at 10:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Rogue...I am no more impressed by your comments here than by your rude email forwarded through the CA contact system. I will bring up the free country topic, or any other, as much as I wish. I secured my right to do so through uniformed service to my country. You obviously do not understand service and sacrifice, nor do you show the maturity and capacity to appreciate and respect the rights of others. Telling someone to "shut their mouth" is rude.

I have not bashed you, only tried to correct your continuing rudeness.

Grow up child.

Posted by AUGIRL (anonymous) on September 3, 2009 at 11:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Khionne...just one question. Do you know the story of Noah and the Ark? That was God's decision to kill all those people because they were not living the life he expected them to live. I happen to believe that we do have to go to war in order to keep our country free. I hate to sound rude but people that don't believe in the military and the freedom that we have in this country need to live for a time in one of the countries where there are no freedoms. I think that time spent there would help people realize how much they really appreciate the country we live in and the men and women who have fought for so many years for the freedoms we have. Example - freedom to post comments on the website.

Posted by Khionne (anonymous) on September 3, 2009 at 11:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)

KWS: Yes, I do believe they are hypocrites because they're praying for you to go out and "God be with you" when you shoot someone. What if you were killing other Christians? That makes no sense.

Posted by Davidica (anonymous) on September 3, 2009 at 11:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Well stated, Kelly Latham!

Posted by PhilBurnette (anonymous) on September 3, 2009 at 12:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Rogue...I meant what I said and I stand by it. You need to show some maturity. What you are doing is very rude.

Now stop bothering me by private email. If you have something to say, do it here in this forum. But do not contact me any further by email. Your contacts in that manner are unwelcome and unwanted.

Posted by Rogue135 (anonymous) on September 3, 2009 at 1:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)

OMG Phil, are you not man enough that you have to state things for everyone to see. See I told you, all you wanted to do was complain. This forum is for the Enfuego posts only. If you have a problem with me... which you apparently do, tell it to me privately. No one in this forum cares to hear you complain and whine about me.

Posted by November162000 (anonymous) on September 3, 2009 at 1:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

PhilBurnette: I don't know about you, I'll speak strickly for myself, but I think I'm starting to see a prevailing pattern expressed by some of the supporters of this past weekend's activity that apparently must show the type of "new Christianity" that is being taught in today's "contemporary Christian" events. But, that's just me. Rogue135 pretty well sums them up, as far as I'm concerned. As for me, give me that Old Time Religion, it's good enough for me. And it doesn't give me a headache or get me exposed to pot smoking or teenagers making out, according to some that have reported here in favor of it that were there.

Khionne: I believe that if I were you, I would be forced to renounce my citizenship and move on, because there is no way that you can deny that the freedoms that you enjoy in this country were won for YOU by military people that killed other people who were trying to kill them and deny you those very freedoms. To continue living in this country, feeling as you do, would be hipocriticle to the highest degree.

Posted by PhilBurnette (anonymous) on September 3, 2009 at 2:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Rogue...You have it completely backwards. I am man enough to use my real name and say what I feel out in the open, for all the world to see. I will NOT email you as I have no desire to speak to you privately. What I want to say I will do openly.

And one more thing...I am not whining about you. I am stating facts. You have acted, and continue to act, in a rude and immature manner. You may otherwise be a good and decent person but your actions here indicate otherwise.

Posted by PhilBurnette (anonymous) on September 3, 2009 at 2:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

November...I agree 100%. Now, how long before some of our "fan club" condemns us for judging others, being maniacal killers or some such other nonsense because we are man enough to state our opinions openly?

Posted by tiredofcomplainers (anonymous) on September 3, 2009 at 2:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I agree 100% with Rogue135. PhilBurnette, from what I've read of your complaints -because that's what they all are - you seem to tell everyone to grow up, and you never seem to have a comment of your own. You simply complain about everyone else’s comments. It seems that these forums no longer pertain to the actually article at hand, it simply is people like you complaining about what others write.
Well, I'd like to comment on the story... I attended enfuego this year, yes there were kids acting up - smoking, making out, and being rowdy - however; these kids were surrounded by good Christian kids. God put those kids there because they needed to be there. We, as Christians, are not put on this earth to sit back and complain how bad the world is; we're here to help save those who are lost. So if there are kids making out or smoking pot at a Christian event... GOOD! That gives us as Christians all the more opportunity to lead them to Christ! I believe Enfuego is a great event and I look forward to attending every year as long as I'm able. Oh, and one more thing... I believe the old saying goes "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" So I agree with Rogue135 there as well, Phil. Sorry, but that is no more rude than the things you are saying. Good Day everyone, and God Bless!

Posted by Khionne (anonymous) on September 3, 2009 at 2:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

No where in my posts am I condemning the military, NOR supporting it. The only thing I'm stating is that it's your choice to be in the military but don't turn around and "claim" to be a "devout Christian" because a "devout Christian" wouldn't be in the military.

Posted by November162000 (anonymous) on September 3, 2009 at 2:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Phil: I'm sure it will come soon. I guess I'll just have to point out that I'm not judging them, I'm just letting their own words do that. But, I hasten to point out that not all of the supporters have acted in the way that Rogue and some others have, but they do strengthen a notion that I have.

I get accused all the time of being "backward" and "closed-minded" and "ignorant". I'll plead guilty to the first two adjectives as I think that today's version of "forward thinking" and "open-mindedness" is precisely what has gotten us to the sorry state that we find our society in now.

Posted by tiredofcomplainers (anonymous) on September 3, 2009 at 2:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Ah, see. Phil just proved my point once more. He just condemned someone for stating their mind. He stated that Rogue135's comments made him/her not a decent person. Hmm... look at the things you've said. I don't know what Rogue135 sent you privately, but honestly, you should either reply privately or not say anything at all.

Posted by PhilBurnette (anonymous) on September 3, 2009 at 2:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Tired...so stating the obvious (and truth) about someone is rude? Being attacked/condemned/criticized/harrassed and responding by pointing out someone's misbehavior is rude? Very well then, I am proud to be rude!

Now that we have all that straightened out let me be rude to you - you say my comments are all complaints and that all I do is complain about everyone elses' comments. By your definition you are rude too! Welcome to the club, sunshine.

Posted by November162000 (anonymous) on September 3, 2009 at 2:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Khionne: So, you're not condemning a military that has and does kill people? Let me clear this up for you. I spent many years in the military, went to war and a couple of other actions that most people don't know about. I am directly responsible in the deaths of people, I don't know how many. Did I enjoy that? ABSOLUTELY NOT. Am I happy that I had to do it? ABSOLUTELY NOT. There are not very many nights that come that some of it doesn't play like a bad movie through my head. Would I do it again? I absolutely would, and WILL, if called upon. Am I a Christian? You bet bet your rear end I am, and if you end up in heaven some day, you'll see that I am right. I'll be over in the Air Force section carrying water for some folks that gave all they had and got there before I did. Lucky for me, my salvation does not depend on your opinion. Similarly, your freedom doesn't depend on people who feel the way you do.

Posted by PhilBurnette (anonymous) on September 3, 2009 at 2:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

tired....you need to reread that. You obviously did not comprehend the part where I said Rogue MAY be a decent person but her actions indicated otherwise. I did NOT say she was not a decent person.

And since you do not know the gender you have obviously not read the entire thread. Did you just seek me out for your pitiful attacks or did someone call/email you for help in attacking me? Just curious as two or three of you sound just alike, like the same old worn out broken record...

Posted by November162000 (anonymous) on September 3, 2009 at 2:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Good one, Phil! :D

Posted by tiredofcomplainers (anonymous) on September 3, 2009 at 3:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

And thus you prove my point again. I forgotten whether Rogue135 was a female or male. There are to many people to keep you all straight. The broken record is you. I will not say another word to PhilBurnette since he seems to take everything so seriously and still can not see the point that this forum is not for complaining about the commentors, that's what the private contact is for.
Rogue135... I appreciate and understand where you're coming from becuase it seems everyone has abandoned the Enfuego issue and are chasing rabbits. I believe you are a good christian, as are some of the others that post here.
So to each his own... as for me.... well this old man has had enough. If you can't comment about the story, I have no desire to read or reply to anyone's comments. Hope you all have a wonderful afternoon and a great weekend.
Well...
long live enfuego.

Posted by PhilBurnette (anonymous) on September 3, 2009 at 3:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)

November...you know what the single biggest problem is for those who think like we do? You know, the ones who know right from wrong and act as they were raised to?

Far too many of us have, for far too long, remained quiet and not stood against those who try to shove their lunacy down others' throats. Well not me! I will say what I feel, when I feel like it and in the manner and place of my choosing. I will state my convictions and point out where I think others are wrong. If they wish to engage in mature reasoned debate, wonderful. Perhaps we can both learn from each other. If they choose to try to shout me down or silence me, they can expect a fight (in whatever form that might take).

Now, some (and we all know by now who THEY are) will say this is un-Christian or perhaps unAmerican. It is neither. It is standing for what I believe in. I will do it until the day I am put in a box and covered over with dirt.

All have the right to express themselves. None have the right to force others to agree or accept that with which they do not agree. Such was tried in the past by people like Hitler.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. " - Edmund Burke

Posted by Rogue135 (anonymous) on September 3, 2009 at 3:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Thank you tiredofcomplainers. and a good day and weekend to you too.

Posted by PhilBurnette (anonymous) on September 3, 2009 at 3:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)

It is not complaining, it is debating different viewpoints. And you did not answer the question put to you.

Posted by November162000 (anonymous) on September 3, 2009 at 3:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Phil: I for one am glad that tiredofcomplainers is tired of complaining and has gone for a nap.

You are right. I think that a large factor in the degredation of our society that is becoming more obvious by the day, is that conservatives have for too long sat back and said nothing, when there were things that needed to be said. It's understandable, though, because conservatives for the most part were raised to use their manners, and so they just let the foolish blather on without standing up for what they knew to be right. Thus, the economic and political climate that we find ourselves in. I don't know how long my voice (or fingers) will hold out, but they'll have a heck of a time shutting this old timer up when I see a subject that I want to comment on. You just never know, somebody might pick up a little common sense along the way from some of our ramblings. Maybe, maybe not. Either way I'll know I tried.

Posted by PhilBurnette (anonymous) on September 3, 2009 at 3:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

He may be tired of complaining but he apparently is not too tired to email. That speaks volumes...

Posted by November162000 (anonymous) on September 3, 2009 at 3:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Well, maybe his keyboard is bigger than his charcter. I don't know, just a possibility. Sounds like they must have taken their guidance from the obama administration's communications office; overwhelm their opponents inboxes with nonsense.

Posted by Khionne (anonymous) on September 3, 2009 at 5:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

November: Your whole post is a complete contradiction in itself, You say "You hated it" then why would you go back? Deep down inside you must not "hate it" that much. The whole point I'm getting at is that you're killing and taking someone else's life, for all you know that may be another Christian whose life you JUST took. How can you justify that?

Posted by November162000 (anonymous) on September 3, 2009 at 6:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Khionne: There is no contradiction at all. Like PhilBurnette said, any veteran that says that they enjoyed taking someone's life is either not being truthful or they have a serious emotional problem. Sometimes it is necessary to do unpleasant things, even things that you hate to do. I hated changing diapers but I changed a truckload of nasty ones when my kids were little. You do what has to be done. And yes, it is entirely possible that it could be another Christian on the other side of the bullet fighting for what he thought was right. That's just the way it goes. As it was in my case it was predominately buddhists on one occasion and muslims on another, but It doesn't matter. They were human beings and I found no enjoyment in it. As far as justifying it goes, that's easy-- this country is worth what ever price needs to be paid to protect it and it's people.

You seem to just side step the question of why you continue to enjoy and utilize the freedoms that have been given you through military actions over the years. Don't you feel like a hipocrite? Is this country and your freedom and that of your family not worth protecting, whatever the price, even if it's necessary to kill in that protection? Are you not willing to give YOUR life in the protection of your country and countrymen? If not, well, I'm glad that you're the exception and not the rule in this country. And, don't you realize that we wouldn't be having this conversation if not for the brave people that died to provide the freedom of the debate?

Posted by travlr423 (anonymous) on September 3, 2009 at 6:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Have all the veterans posting here actually been involved during an act of war and been on the front lines of battle and actually shot and killed or did they perform their duties as many other military personnel and enlist serve their duty and come home.
I dont think every military vet is a war hero.
And even if the vets here in the post killed a hundred men each, it has no bearings as to being or not being a christian. and anyone who says otherwise needs to study their bible more closely. Besides just believing that God is real does not make you a christian. You must be borned again. And if you own a bible and you can read and you are not familiar with it, you should go back and start your first works over. To know God is to know his word. The bible says in the beginning was the word, the word was with god and the word was god. so if you do not read your bible how can you know god. The bible says to study the word diligently with understanding so that you may show your self approved in his word.(his ways)
The bible says blessed is the man that can read and understand rightly dividing the word of
god.
Yes, murder is wrong, but there are times when it may become necessary.
As in a time of war.
In the protection of your home and property.
In fact through out history there has been more killing in the name of religion than any other cause.

As far as styles and types of music someone with no knowledge in music has no understanding of music.
Music is so much more than what only the ears hear. It is so much more than just the rhythm or beat that draws our attention to like or dislike. Not all flavors of music style are desirable to everyone but to the one who created it, it can be many different things. it can be a testimony, it can be an expression of feelings, life, happiness, sorrow, trials, temptations, experiences, love , hate, opinions, many things.
Amazing Grace is a good example of a song that has been covered in many different genre styles of music.
it can take on the style of the blues, gospel, country, rock,metal. jazz or classical And through any of these styles the song shares the same story and delivers the same message to the listener and as there are only 7alphabetical notes to the music scale the only thing that may change is the key, and the style or voicing of the instrument that delivers it.
While my ears may not desire to listen to certain melodies or styles the foundation on which it was created i can not ignore or dismiss without appreciation nor the message it delivers.

Posted by Khionne (anonymous) on September 3, 2009 at 7 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Your post was so disjointed I didn't even understand what you wrote travelr, summarize it up. So it was okay to kill another Christian because they thought it was what was right? Or it was "for the country" shouldn't we be serving god not man?

Posted by November162000 (anonymous) on September 3, 2009 at 7:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

travlr: I've never known a veteran that thought of him/herself as a hero. I'm certainly not one, FAR from it. The heros aren't aound and able to talk about it. I'm just like all the rest, someone who played his small part and did his duty then moved on. Nothing more, nothing less. It sure gets under my skin, though, when people are unappreciative of the people that gave ALL they had to give for the freedom and liberty of people that don't care. But, cie`t la vi.

Posted by travlr423 (anonymous) on September 3, 2009 at 7:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I will say this in defense of this event, and its supporters.
Jesus was questioned about mingling with sinners.
And the bible does teach us to go out and compel the lost to come in.
I dont think he was merely talking about some of the members going on scheduled home visitations.
I believe he expects us to go out in the streets, in the gutters, under the bridges and in the lowest places humanity exist and teach the gospel testify and witness of his Grace and Love for mankind. Most people church members want to visit already feel like their life is going pretty well without him and if they think for a second accepting Jesus Christ will cost them anything they want no part of it they're just happy to see you leave. But when you find a man that feels like he is at the bottom of his rope and has no hope and no one that cares and nothing else to lose and living in the Pitts of despair and knows that he has nothing to offer but a broken life. then you have recruited a soldier that God can use and be glorified in. And we live in a day and time that teens and young adults have that mentality about life. There are many well educated people including doctors, lawyers, and even celebrities that have ended up in the gutters and the streets homeless and lost from society for one reason or another. And now that they have been brought low in the world, brings the perfect opportunity to introduce them to the real savior.

Posted by travlr423 (anonymous) on September 3, 2009 at 7:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Nov.,
I'm sorry i did not mean to give that interpretation that you considered yourself a hero. I was merely trying to say that not every military vet was in the same circumstance while being on active duty or during time served. I think they're are many war heroes not just the front line soldiers who lost their life. but not every vet has had to kill someone in battle.

Khionne, All i can say to you, you really should search out Gods word before you accuse these military vets of being murders without salvation. I will not argue this with you but if you will do some bible research and pray for guidance and understanding you will most certainly come back and ask forgiveness from these guys.
I dont even really know who most of these guys are so I'm not defending them personally, but i will however defend the word of God because it is truth.

Posted by travlr423 (anonymous) on September 3, 2009 at 8:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Kw, dude you hollan at the wrong guy now i have said nothing that I'm aware of about your military service. and maybe you should take the time to read my comments, as i stated not every vets duty of service was under the circumstance of war. You are not talking to a child i understand that there are many different missions with many different requirements and purposes in the military as with any other operation of business. I'm 44yrs. old i learned that many many yrs ago.

And as far as the enfuego or what ever you call it goes. That's your right to like or dislike. And i have not pointed you out personally in any of my comments, but if you are unhappy with any of my comments concerning the scripture i will gladly discuss them with you and if i cant back it with scripture i will be more than happy to apologise and make it right. And unlike Khonnie appears to be doing. I dont just look at one scripture from the bible and presume that's the start and the end of it i make an effort to cross reference the little bit of knowledge i do have of the bible to satisfy my understanding in the whole meaning. but as i have stated many times my understanding is my understanding not everyone else's but i feel comfortable that i can pull enough cross reference out to justify my interpretation. however i would not advise anyone to take my word for the true gospel because we all may wind up in hell. The bible says let gods word be the truth and everything else a lie.

Posted by Khionne (anonymous) on September 3, 2009 at 8:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Travlr, maybe you should read Luke 6:27-29 and Romans 12:17-21 and do "bible research" because I have done mine, and the fact that people openly say "God be with me" when I go to war to shoot others is wrong.

Posted by November162000 (anonymous) on September 3, 2009 at 9:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)

kw: I don't know about you, but I don't think anyone that is not willing to fight for their freedom deserves it. But, they get it by default anyway.

Posted by travlr423 (anonymous) on September 3, 2009 at 10:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Khionne, I will not try to change your mind, your interpretation of the word is only between you and god. but i will say that as a christian according to the bible you should submit to your government and its laws. And even if it makes you angry or discouraged the bible teaches us that a servant is not over his master. but should patiently submit to their authority. And dont misunderstand me I am not in favor of war and war should only be used as a last resort of order. But neither am i in favor of living in a country where i have no freedom to vote or choose my choice of religion, I am not in favor of living under a nation of genocide killings of hundreds of thousands of people, I am not in favor of living in a country where i have no choice in making opportunities for myself or my children, I am not in favor of living in a country where children are taken from babes and turned into killing machines and walking bombs, I am not in favor of living in a country where women are not allowed to have a voice and be considered as equal contributors to society in what ever role they serve in society. I am not in favor of living in a country where peace is not considered as an ideal way of life. And I am not in favor of living in a country that comments such as these we have the liberty to make even on these post would cost us our life.
No I'm not in favor of War but i do appreciate the freedom that it has brought to many.
In fact i could almost be looked at as i guess you would call a flower child holding up a sign protesting war. But i know that certain freedoms are protected through its course.
if it had not been for the act of war this country would still be using Africans for human slave animals. So you see it takes one devastating act to stop another.

There are many, many scriptures in the bible pertaining to war and laws and government. Please spend some time reading on them before just pulling excerpts that really dont pertain to a time of war and our duties to our country.
while the scripture you are quoting does imply turning the other cheek, I think if you spend the time to do some valuable research concerning these issues you will understand the division and more particular meaning of these scriptures as it will open up a much broader picture for your better understanding.
If you will read Romans 12ch. 18v. It says: If it be (possible), as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
Even though these particular scriptures are more on an individual level for Christians to live by it clearly indicates there may be times that you can not live peaceably with others.

Posted by Khionne (anonymous) on September 3, 2009 at 11:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

You have yet to mention any scriptures that "prove" your point, maybe instead of using your own logic you should use scriptures. Thanks.

Posted by travlr423 (anonymous) on September 7, 2009 at 12:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Khionne, You should search out the scriptures for your self. If you do not own a Bible however i will gladly with honor to our lord and savior furnish you with one free of charge. As with anyone I beleive the Lord has only allowed me to understand as i am able to recieve his word. Never walk according to mans word, But by the word of God and his plan for your life. God needs no help in qualifying a willing soul, he is a pro at raising his own children.

Posted by Khionne (anonymous) on September 7, 2009 at 8:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Once again you continue to talk in circles, without mentioning a scripture to back up your thoughts. Honestly you should be the one to "research" the scriptures if you can't even come up with one to back up your point.

Posted by tiredofcomplainers (anonymous) on September 8, 2009 at 1:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

(sigh) It seems everyone is arguing with one another... it really is sad. People just can't seem to say nice things anymore. You try to do things civil-like, but it just never works.